Looking to get into some black powder cartridge shooting

powdergun

powdergun

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So next thing I would like to try is to shoot wth some falling block rifles in a 45 70 or similar cartridge loaded with some lead bullets and pyrodex etc. I see Some pedersoli rifles on the cabelas site and would like to get one and put a creedmore type site on in and start to learn.

Are these Pedersoli rifles a good place to start. I have read a bit about custom sharps rifles made in the states but long waits and big money make me a little shy.

All opinions and advice greatly appreciated. Total newb to BP cartridges but decades of experience with muzzle loaders and with reloading.
 
Oh, you have my sympathies! BPCR shooting is a rabbit hole with no bottom level.

The DCRA has had a long range black powder category for a few decades. They have forgotten more than almost anyone here ever learned. Contact their section (?) head through the DCRA offices in Ottawa. For example, they're using linotype cast bullets, gas checks, duplex loads, over powder wads, "puff tubes" to moisturize the bores between shots, and proper aperture sights. They hit bullseyes at 1000yds off a rest, and do it repeatedly. The 45-70 is a little weak at the really long ranges, so these cats shoot 45-90, 45-110, 38-90, etc. All in pursuit of good scoring accuracy.

The best gun to shoot is the one you like. There are stupid expensive new rifles on the market, and others that aren't. The DCRA recognized that some shooters just couldn't play in the high chequebook category, so there is a spirit of the original class for new but not genuine models.
 
I'm a recent convert to BPCR shooting. I've owned BPC rifles for decades but always shot them with smokeless. My arsenal comprises of: Sharps 1874(Pedersoli) in 45-90, Sharps 1874 (Pedersoli) in 45-70, repop Rolling Block (Pedersoli) in 45-70, 1885 Hiwall (Uberti) in 40-65, 1885 Hiwall (Uberti) in 38-55 and a original Remington Rolling Block, completely re-built and re-barreled to 38-55. Original Danish rolling blocks (2) in 8 X 58 RDK and an original RB in .43 Spanish. Ruger #1 in 45-70 and a Browning 1885 in 45-70. I suppose if I sold 3 of my repops, I could afford a C. Sharps but I doubt it would shoot any better than my present rifles!
My best advice to a new shooter: Buy the best that you can afford. Read every book by Paul Mathews and Mike Venturino and Steve Garby that you can put your hands on! Any book on BPCR that you can find, really!
There are way way more variables in BPCR reloading than in smokeless reloading.
The alloy of choice is 1-20 tin/lead, gas checks are NOT allowed and neither are duplex loads. The idea is to replicate the contests of yesteryear. The 45-70 is the most popular cartridge out to 1000 yds. The bigger 45's are too punishing as you will shoot as many as 200 rds in 1 day! The next most popular round is the 40-65 Win. Even the 38-55 is a contender out to 600 yds. Spend some time on youtube, there are tons of videos showing some awesome shooting with the calibers mentioned.
BPCR is definitely a "Rabbit Hole"
Good Luck!
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
I'll bite. Which rulebook says no gas checks or duplex loads?
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The NRA.

https://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/NRA_rules_for_BPCR.htm

"(e) Cast or swaged lead or lead alloy projectiles only; no jacketed or gas checked bullets. Paper patching permitted. Breech seating is permitted but no additional time will be allowed."



I don't shoot in matches with NRA rules and use gas checked boolits in my 38/55 and 45 rifles at the Club level events.
 
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powdergun said:
So next thing I would like to try is to shoot wth some falling block rifles in a 45 70 or similar cartridge loaded with some lead bullets and pyrodex etc. I see Some pedersoli rifles on the cabelas site and would like to get one and put a creedmore type site on in and start to learn.

Are these Pedersoli rifles a good place to start. I have read a bit about custom sharps rifles made in the states but long waits and big money make me a little shy.

All opinions and advice greatly appreciated. Total newb to BP cartridges but decades of experience with muzzle loaders and with reloading.
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Most of the older Italian sharps copies were of very good quality the uberti for the 1885 copy and the Armisport for the Sharps copy were very good back in the day. the most important thing is the sights.... Lee Shaver very good and MVA for the top of the line sights.
If you are getting into it and not 100 % sure grab a sharps copy with good sights and go have fun. Move up when you can afford it. BTW I saw first hand a rookie shooter beating Master class shooters with a spaghetti sharps with a Lee shaver tang sight. Boy they got nervous after the first day of shooting, and wanted to know what this guy was shooting.
 
stewbud said:
The NRA.

https://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/NRA_rules_for_BPCR.htm

"(e) Cast or swaged lead or lead alloy projectiles only; no jacketed or gas checked bullets. Paper patching permitted. Breech seating is permitted but no additional time will be allowed."



I don't shoot in matches with NRA rules and use gas checked boolits in my 38/55 and 45 rifles at the Club level events.
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I shoot gas checks as well at club events & jacketed in the Ruger and Browning. When I'm shooting with a fellow BPCR shooter, we follow the NRA rules. When I'm working up a BPC load, again, I follow the rules. Other than that, I just have fun!!!
 
The irony with the no-duplex loads rule is the smarter way to ignite black powder is with a higher 'order' for lack of a better word, powder. A small quantity of smokeless against the primer will get the long black powder column burning very well, as opposed to burning just pretty good. Over powder wads are smart too, because they keep the smokeless against the primer. Gas checks, again are smart because of the gas seal function for pressures and bullet seating.

If is not surprising that the NRA would err on the side of limitations versus, allowing full exploration of the original science of black powder cartridges. The rules committee evidently knows its clientele, and chose to be strictly doctrinaire. I get it. Anything else would start an arms race. But it caps the scientific revisitation of smart men squeezing bullseyes out of then state of the art rifles.
 
stewbud said:
The NRA.

https://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/NRA_rules_for_BPCR.htm

"(e) Cast or swaged lead or lead alloy projectiles only; no jacketed or gas checked bullets. Paper patching permitted. Breech seating is permitted but no additional time will be allowed."

I don't shoot in matches with NRA rules and use gas checked boolits in my 38/55 and 45 rifles at the Club level events.
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Ah ha! Are you trying to shoot shilouettes with a black powder rifle, or paper targets? The difference changes the conversation. I am writing about long range paper targets, whereas the link has the shooters hammering steel chickens, pigs, turkeys, and sheep.

https://www.dcra.ca/blackpowder and page 51 of https://vdocument.in/dcra-rule-book-2014.html
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Ah ha! Are you trying to shoot shilouettes with a black powder rifle, or paper targets? The difference changes the conversation. I am writing about long range paper targets, whereas the link has the shooters hammering steel chickens, pigs, turkeys, and sheep.

https://www.dcra.ca/blackpowder and page 51 of https://vdocument.in/dcra-rule-book-2014.html
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The DCRA rules are different from BPCR silhouette rules or Shuetszen rules for sure.
Even the long range ( 1,000 yard) matches in the States do not allow for gas checks, but the Schuetszen matches do not go as far , they do allow for smokeless powder however.
I could not even shoot my Ruger 45/70 with its 30" Badger barrel in sanctioned BPCR shoots because the Ruger single shot action was not deemed " historical", nor was the oversized Central style receiver sight!
As far as Sharps replicas go, I have owned and shot many, from 50/140 Rollers , 45/110 Sharps, 45/70 Highwalls and my current Sharps replica in 40/65 Winchester.
ALL were Italian guns and all were well made.
Two were Pedersolis. Pedersoli BTW holds many World records in BP competition......
Cat
 
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The NRA, BPCRA rules for target and silhouette are pretty well the same. There is a weight difference for iron sites (vernier) 12.2# and for scopes 15#. Some shoots use loose NRA rules others follow to a tee. Look up the NRA rules on line to get a better understanding. http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Blkpwdr/bp-book.pdf

You can do well with a Pedersoli. Select a model with a pistol grip then one within the weight limit for scopes or sites. This is a good starting point.

The books previously mention have a wealth of knowledge. There are a few forums as well, Shiloh rifles, cast boolits.

A couple of places for equipment, https://www.buffaloarms.com/ https://montanavintagearms.com/

You will need to learn to cast or have some one do it for you or buy soft cast bullets to start.

Latch onto some one in your region who is a BPCR shooter and learn from them.

Welcome to the fold and have fun.
 
I have spent a fair bit of time shooting NRA Creedmoor matches in America. Since everyone has stopped shooting duplex loads in long range, interestingly, scores have only gone up. With that said, I have never shot duplex loads. Even if it's better, it's not historically correct for a Creedmoor match. I know that here in Canada there were a lot of people shooting duplex very successfully at long range in the 1980's, but I think that with the introduction of Swiss powder to North America, it became unnecessary.

Ok, by the way, welcome to the club :). You'll find that black powder shooting is about the most enjoyable type of shooting that can be done. A Pedersoli 1874 Sharps would be a great way to get into it. Do a bunch of reading before you decide on sights.

Chris.
 
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The Italian Sharps rifles are quality guns the ones made by Shiloh are mainly for the purists in the sport basically more historically correct to a point and for most people a chance to have a custom made Sharps done to their tastes.As far as accuracy goes the most important element is the person behind the gun.I ve owned a lot of the Shiloh Sharps rifles in the past and currently own 3 but I don t compete in BPCR as I m not interested in competition I just like the history of the Sharps.The most important thing to know about Sharps cartridge rifles is always put the hammer on half #### before opening the action as it will save your firing pin tip from being broken off.
 
gunlaker said:
I have spent a fair bit of time shooting NRA Creedmoor matches in America. Since everyone has stopped shooting duplex loads in long range, interestingly, scores have only gone up. With that said, I have never shot duplex loads. Even if it's better, it's not historically correct for a Creedmoor match. I know that here in Canada there were a lot of people shooting duplex very successfully at long range in the 1980's, but I think that with the introduction of Swiss powder to North America, it became unnecessary.

Ok, by the way, welcome to the club :). You'll find that black powder shooting is about the most enjoyable type of shooting that can be done. A Pedersoli 1874 Sharps would be a great way to get into it. Do a bunch of reading before you decide on sights.

Chris.
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I think you hit the X with that comment. Swiss Black powder was something of a holy grail for a long time. I don't know the story of its introduction, but remember the DCRA guys switched everything over and abandoned the US-made powders.
 
Take the time to read everything you can! Mike venturing, Paul Matheus, just to name a few. Oh an take notes, I just started Shooting BPRC with a pedersoli 1874, and cowboy action with .44-40’s. Like said previously enjoy BPRC is great fun.
 
powdergun said:
So next thing I would like to try is to shoot wth some falling block rifles in a 45 70 or similar cartridge loaded with some lead bullets and pyrodex etc. I see Some pedersoli rifles on the cabelas site and would like to get one and put a creedmore type site on in and start to learn.

Are these Pedersoli rifles a good place to start. I have read a bit about custom sharps rifles made in the states but long waits and big money make me a little shy.

All opinions and advice greatly appreciated. Total newb to BP cartridges but decades of experience with muzzle loaders and with reloading.
Click to expand...

I own a Pedersoli Sharps, an Antique Sharps and a Shiloh Sharps, and all are great in their own way. I have seen many people make reference to Shiloh's being a better rifle then a Pedersoli, namely as it pertains to fit and finish. In my personal experience (with a small sample sized admittedly), the Pedersoli rifle shoots just as well as my Shiloh, and at a fraction of the cost. The metal finish on my Pedersoli is great, with the Shiloh taking a small lead in metal finish and a larger lead in wood finish. Honestly either/or will suit you well.

Calibre wise 45-70 is likely the best place to start, notably as it pertains to cost, availability of components and its generally forgiving nature. Its also a very historical cartridge too for these rifles which is neat in its own way. I have found that working up a load in the 45-70 rifle much, much easier and forgiving then the 45-120, which honestly is a ton of fun to shoot but a PITA at times. I have a few BP cartridge books from Mike Venturino that I use regularly, PM me and I can send you some good references and tips from these books.
 
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