Looking to go long

Artemis,
Since you're left handed there won't be much use in you trying everyone's guns as the stocks will mostly be right handed. Another old friend had this same problem. If he couldn't locate a LH action rifle he bought custom. In Benchrest the stocks are mostly ambidextrous and LH configurations are as easy to buy as RH. I see why you like the M14 because of this, but it's not the best platform for long range. You could dump a lot of money into it and get little in return.
Any good solid pedestal will work like Hart, Sinclair, Bald Eagle, Viper, Seb to name a few.
I just use a RCBS single stage Rockchucker for most of my needs and some inline seater dies like Wilson. I like the Redding Competition dies, but that's my opinion too.
 
Lejarretnoir,

I was afraid that my left handedness would be a major block when getting into long range shooting. I actually bought the m14 for a nice non restricted 'assault rifle' but i have read articles of people pushing them out to 500-600 yds. that is definitely a nice place to be for something like that considering its semi-auto and old technology. Just thought it may be a place to start since i already own it.

I like magazine fed as i tend to multi-purpose rifles. I have begun to collect a series of websites (for research) on a long range .22LR (200-300m) like mystic mentioned. I may just pick up two rifles that are more in the beginner/economical area so that i can practice form and technique without worrying about everything else. then get good 'supporting' equipment to further enhance the accuracy (thats what i see here as well as a few other sites ive visited). I dont want to always rely on the support equipment though as i may want to take the rifle hunting with me and try it out or to a friends farm or elsewhere that might not have benches.

so much to think about...
 
For certain purposes, an M14 will work very well at 600y and at 1000y. For precision target shooting, it is a tough row to hoe; it's a lot easier (money, time, effort) to achieve a given level of precision with a bolt gun than with an M14.

You wrote that your requirement was "...a rifle that is far enough above my skill level that i can grow into it." and I think this is exactly the right approach to take. Your $10K budget is far more than you'll need to spend - though in my opinion you should not spend $6K if $4K will do.

You will need to take up reloading to get the most out of this. Since you don't already reload, and since reloading will likely be a means-to-an-end for you (at least at first), you should choose a cartridge that is very well known and very much "no fuss" when it comes to making accurate ammo. If you want to learn to shoot well, you should be learning to shoot, not also simultaneously be attempting to develop a load accurate enough to allow your shooting to advance.

The two cartridge choices to me that make the most sense for your situation are the 6BR (firing 105+ grain match bullets) and the .308Win (firing 155+ grain match bullets). Both of them are very well known, and it is an absolute no brainer to make super accurate ammo for them.

Pros of the 6BR vs. the .308
- a bit cheaper to load
- less recoil
- higher performance for long range shooting (less wind drift and more retained speed)

Cons of the 6BR vs. the .308
- in competition, it is classed as an "Open" cartridge, so you'll be shooting against people with higher performance rifles

I would not recommend a .223 for you. It can be a topnotch long range cartridge (and it is a joy to shoot), but it can require much more fuss and bother to reload topnotch ammo for it.

I would not recommend any of the higher performance cartridges as your first long range rifle. I would definitely recommend you buy a higher performance cartridge, should they appeal to you, for your second, third, fourth etc long range rifle, but I think it is preferable to learn to shoot with a 6BR or a .308W:
- most of the higher performance cartridges are *much* fussier to load good ammo for; if you're not shooting good ammo, you cannot perform, you cannot learn, you cannot advance
- the higher performance cartridges have less barrel life, oftentimes significantly so. For acknowledged "racing" situations, a 1000-round barrel life may well be an acceptable tradeoff to make versus a 3000-4000 round barrel life.
- the .308W and 6BR have *adequate* performance for 1000 yards shooting, but since they are at the low end of the spectrum they will get blown around more by the wind. For training purposes this is an *advantage*, it lets you see the effects of the wind more, and it lets you better judge your wind-reading skills and your shooting skills as you develop tactics to shoot well in varying wind conditions.
 
rnbra-shooter,

I have a budget up to 10k, i really didnt want to spend that if i didnt have to, to begin with anyway. I agree if 4k will do what 6k does than im for it. I have decided to go with a simple beginner platform (what i think is simple might not be). i have been tossing the idea around of the .308 cartridge as well as my 7mm rem mag cartridge (ive been shooting it for a long time and im comfortable with it). Reloading hasnt happened for me yet because i havent been stagnant in living arrangements yet though i have designed a work bench around two presses, one single stage and one multistage (dillon) for reloading .223 for the ar and 9mm, .40 and so on. i will be picking up a single stage soon so that i can start reloading precision cartridges (up til now i havent had the need). Im not into competitions so really its not a big deal to me where i sit in terms of class. End game i want to be up in the big calibers that reach out as far as the eye can see with reliability. im not in it to be the most accurate in the world so if i had to sac 200-400m for a bit more barrel longevity im happy with that. i didnt want to go to a smaller caliber becaue i may at some point want to take it hunting with me and post up on a hill and see what happens (just to say i can). that all said, i have decided to play a bit more with my m14 also, it was a dream now its a challenge. Thank you for the recommendations.

does anyone have a list of equipment they would take out to shoot long? just looking for a starting point to research different equipment for a beginner. I think this is where ill spend most of my money out of the hole.
 
No need to buy a single stage for your precision loading (unless you want to, in which case of course you should).

I have a single stage, but I load most of my .308 precision ammo on my Dillon 650. I end up using the 650 three times. First I use it to size my brass - so it's equivalent to a single stage press with a sizing die, except that it has an automatic case feeder. Then if I've F/L sized, I put the brass in a tumbler to remove the lube. Then I use the 650 to prime my brass. I have a universal decapping die in the first station (to poke out corncob media from the flash hole), then I seat a primer. Basically it's a zillion dollar priming tool with an automatic case feeder ;-). Then I'll put 40 pieces of brass in a wooden loading block, and throw 40 charges from a bench mounted measure. Most of the time I'll use carefully thrown charges for my 1000 yards ammo, but if desired you can always weigh and trickle your charges at this stage. Then I put a bullet on top and put them through the 650 a third time, to seat the bullets (instead of using the case feeder I'll manually insert a case+bullet into the shellholder).

Advice you'll hear a lot is "don't scrimp on optics". When I got started shooting, topnotch scopes (Leupolds) went up to nearly a thousand dollars. Nowadays there are a whole bunch of really fantastic scopes that are way more expensive than that and also a bit better too. Nothing wrong with buying one of those gorgeous $2000, or $3000, or $4000 scopes if you can afford it and if you want it. But there's nothing at all wrong with buying what is today a "midrange" target scope in the $1000 +/- neighbourhood, they are more than enough to get you started and not hold you back in any way. I've also successfully shot with bargain scopes (e.g. a Weaver KT-15).

Even if you are not interested in competitions, you should attend local rifle matches. They are probably the best place you can go to learn how to shoot, get (for free!) coaching from some pretty talented shooters, and be able to advance your shooting abilities just as quickly as you possibly can. If you end up learning that you enjoy competition shooting (that's what happened to me), that's great and you'll have a wonderful lifelong pursuit, if not, you will learn so much about long range shooting that it will have been well worth your while.

If you live in Alberta, "i want to be up in the big calibers that reach out as far as the eye can see with reliability" might require something that includes a trailer hitch ;-)

If you get yourself on the road to mastering long range shooting with a .308 or a 6BR, you'll find that shooting a higher performance rifle with mastery is completely straightforward. After all, it's not the rifle that is the master, it is you.

One advantage of the .308 that I didn't mention - until you start loading, it is possible to buy some pretty good match ammo for the .308. That can be a sounds way to fast-forward your startup. It's a bit expensive (figure $2/round), and is every bit as good as good handloaded ammo at ranges up to 600m. At long range (e.g. 900m) it tends to not be quite as good as very carefully made handloaded ammo, however it's still pretty darn good; you need to be a reasonably experienced shooter before you start to be limited by its faults.
 
I was planning to get the dillon 650 myself. i may just go that route and give it a shot, and if not its ammo for the m14...

Im not in a hurry to get it all together thankfully. optics will be the last piece i buy as i need it to suit everything ive built and it gives me more time to figure out what i want and can afford.

i do like going out and talking to people at the range to find out what works and watch them to see how and what they do. take notes and carry on.

Ah yes. its a good thing i have a large truck... though i was hoping for truck mount?

i was thinking of picking up some match grade ammo for the m14 to dial it in as much as possible. a 1" grouping at 300m would make me a happy camper. that would also mean i have a few good habits when shooting as well.

I have been researching parts and pieces for a custom rifle more to come on this for opinion feedback!
 
Artemis said:
i was thinking of picking up some match grade ammo for the m14 to dial it in as much as possible. a 1" grouping at 300m would make me a happy camper. that would also mean i have a few good habits when shooting as well.
Click to expand...

A 1" group at 300m with an M14 would win you a National Championship at Camp Perry, Ohio. You should be a happy camper if you shoot better than 2 MOA or about 6" at 300m.
 
Artemis said:
damn, dreams ruined...
Click to expand...

1MOA at 100 yards is just over 1" or 1.047 inches. To make it easier most people just say 1", but while sizing and guaging distance that 4.7% does come into play.

So 1 MOA at 300 yards is ~3" or 3.15".

2MOA at 300 is 6" as mentioned.

Reading up a few posts you can see people are after 1/2 MOA consistantly, which is WAY different then one group, or a 3 shot group. I've shot .5 MOA in my budget gun multiple times, but I think I'm a long ways from 5, 5shot groups of .5 or less.

Without additional variables, .5 MOA at 1000 yards is ~5" grouping. Very impressive.
 
Jerry,

I'm thinking about LR rifle shooting and like your proposal to start with 22lr caliber first. You mentioned shooting 200-300 meters with Savage/CZ452 as a preparation to real long range, what scope (scopes) would you recommend in that case ? Should it be normal scope, same as mounted on the centrefire rifle, or made specifically for the rimfire ones ? Would appreciate if you provide some models. (I'd like to remove budget out of equation and looked into models that are recommended to this type of shooting and consider what is reasonable and what is not after that).

--
Thanks in advance.
 
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ekp, the same scope you will use for the CF. The biggest reason for using a rimfire is the simulation of centerfire at LR without the costs. So you want to do all the same things wrt scope visual, doping and adjustments. It really is a great analog but far more difficult wrt gun handling.

I use Sightron SIII and SII Big Sky scopes on my rigs. Have a look at my website for pricing. There are a few new ones for 2013 but the mains ones are already in service.

Best to budget $800 to 1000 for the scope. But this is a scope you will not likely outgrow.

If the end goal is LR rock smacking and gongs, I would recommend the SIII6-24X50 or the SII Big Sky 6.5-20X50. For F class, SIII10-50X60. . Many choose the SIII8-32X56 which is a great middle ground.

I use the LRMOA reticles. Others perfer mildot or a target reticle. Whatever makes you happy, it all works very nicely.
Jerry
 
If you really want a nice rifle in left hand find a Remington 700 type left hand action or doner rifle have it trued and re barrelled drop it in a McMillan or manners stock with good bottom metal choose a good rings and mount slap a night force scope on it ... Also jewel trigger ... Call a rem 700 gunsmith there are manny that could do all of the above ... I vote for .308 or 300wsm
 
Thanks, Jerry !
Today I learned somethink new, appreciate your help.
If I deside to go that route I'll definetelly let you know.
Cheers !
 
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