So where is this surplus ammo reside? I thought it was effectively all gone, and we were really relegated to commercial and handloads.
looking to improve accurace of M14
- Thread starter timoram
- Start date
So where is this surplus ammo reside? I thought it was effectively all gone, and we were really relegated to commercial and handloads.
timoram,
Some random thoughts...
I use a mix of USGI TRW, SEI and Chinese parts. Two of my builds have TRW bolts, trigger groups and op rods -
the other two have TRW bolts, ChiCom trigger groups and op rods. You can not tell any difference without inspecting them closely.
SEI makes outstanding M14 parts and I highly recommend them when USGI or ChiCom parts are not available.
Also, I use shims and have never had any wear out... SAGE now supplies a crush washer with their EBR stocks.
Good luck with your quest.
Some random thoughts...
I use a mix of USGI TRW, SEI and Chinese parts. Two of my builds have TRW bolts, trigger groups and op rods -
the other two have TRW bolts, ChiCom trigger groups and op rods. You can not tell any difference without inspecting them closely.
SEI makes outstanding M14 parts and I highly recommend them when USGI or ChiCom parts are not available.
Also, I use shims and have never had any wear out... SAGE now supplies a crush washer with their EBR stocks.
Good luck with your quest.
I put the norinco in a us gi fibreglass stock. Made a usgi length pin to hold the marstar ss op rod guide in place. This way I don't have to fill in the stock to keep the short pin in place. Put on a US navy black sling and am good to go. Bought breda complete rear sights, but have not them yet. This is a reasonable way to start and the gun works well. I have put 1000's of rounds of norinco n/c 308 through it.
probably hundreds of guys off this site alone have purchsed used, serviceable M1 garand sights as replacements for thier norc sights and have been exceptionally happy with the 75.00 landed that they spent to get them ( thru ebay, shipped out of italy, and yes that's legal to do)..... if an NM aperture is really needed , they can be bought seperately thru brownells. you will save big cash going this route over buying an authentic NM rear sight assembly.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Thanks!
I agree with finding the sweet spot by sampling different loads - every barrel is a little different.
I got lucky with the one pictured above because I get sub MOA performance with Portuguese NATO surplus ball.
I have better ammo, but right now I'm loving excellent accuracy for cheap
I'll trade you my M14 for yours
Keep this in perspective before dumping BIG $$$ into your 14.
I've seen several Norinco M14 rifles with all stock parts, that would shoot 1" - 1 1/2" with their favorite commercial ammo. With some of these, simply fitting in a GI bolt, a proper tightening and a decent trigger job, has turned basically stock Chinese M14 rifles into SUB-MOA shooters. Reloading may improve accuracy even more.
The M14 type rifles are incredibly sensitive to variations in ammunition. Test groups have ranged from sub MOA to 4" with the same gun, with no other change than ammunition. Finding the ammunition your individual rifle prefers is one of the easiest and most effective "accurising" tricks available for the M14.
If you want to spend BIG $$$ on accurising an M14, be aware that many "accurising" tricks and tweaks used on the M14 subtract only fractions of an inch from a group, and added all together [ at a cost of perhaps THOUSANDS of dollars in parts and labor ] they can make an M14 almost as accurate as an off the shelf, cheap, ho hum, bolt action rifle.
Does this suggest the point of diminishing returns?
Basic Norc with a bit of DIY labor - $ 500 shoots approximately 1 1/2"
add a GI bolt - $ 800 - if you get lucky, the 14 may now shoot sub-MOA
TOTAL Full house M14 - SEVERAL THOUSANDS of dollars, may shoot better, may NOT!!
But for those of you who want to chase the elusive holy grail of more accuracy from an M14 Money Pit,
good luck to you!!
as usual,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
I've seen several Norinco M14 rifles with all stock parts, that would shoot 1" - 1 1/2" with their favorite commercial ammo. With some of these, simply fitting in a GI bolt, a proper tightening and a decent trigger job, has turned basically stock Chinese M14 rifles into SUB-MOA shooters. Reloading may improve accuracy even more.
The M14 type rifles are incredibly sensitive to variations in ammunition. Test groups have ranged from sub MOA to 4" with the same gun, with no other change than ammunition. Finding the ammunition your individual rifle prefers is one of the easiest and most effective "accurising" tricks available for the M14.
If you want to spend BIG $$$ on accurising an M14, be aware that many "accurising" tricks and tweaks used on the M14 subtract only fractions of an inch from a group, and added all together [ at a cost of perhaps THOUSANDS of dollars in parts and labor ] they can make an M14 almost as accurate as an off the shelf, cheap, ho hum, bolt action rifle.
Does this suggest the point of diminishing returns?
Basic Norc with a bit of DIY labor - $ 500 shoots approximately 1 1/2"
add a GI bolt - $ 800 - if you get lucky, the 14 may now shoot sub-MOA
TOTAL Full house M14 - SEVERAL THOUSANDS of dollars, may shoot better, may NOT!!
But for those of you who want to chase the elusive holy grail of more accuracy from an M14 Money Pit,
good luck to you!!
as usual,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
Today's results
...to confirm Laz's observations
- Stock Poly M305 with Hungry inspection and shim job plus SEI Navy brake
- 5 rounds South African surplus ball
- Range: 100M at Sharon Gun Club
- Stock iron sights
- Front rest, rear held at the shoulder, seated. Mediocre shooter (me)
- Pouring rain, 9C
As we say in the Army - good enough for government work.
...to confirm Laz's observations
- Stock Poly M305 with Hungry inspection and shim job plus SEI Navy brake
- 5 rounds South African surplus ball
- Range: 100M at Sharon Gun Club
- Stock iron sights
- Front rest, rear held at the shoulder, seated. Mediocre shooter (me)
- Pouring rain, 9C
As we say in the Army - good enough for government work.
Norc sub moa
Benched - AKM stock - 24 power Leuopold.
At 200 yds 5 rds consistantly hover around an inch.
Every stock mounted op rod guide design has done this for me - I have built several Sage and AKM norcs for others and they all perform the same . I have also built epoxy bedded GI stocks and they are close to but not as accurate as free float from op rod guide designs.The Sage and AKM designs keep the same group size but print lower as the gun gets hotter and the barrel stretches. GI stocks also print lower but the groups open up considerably as the heat increases.
I have only built one Troy (2nd generation) so far and it shot poorly in comparison. The first generation design made sense but the new model is to loose where it counts.
Benched - AKM stock - 24 power Leuopold.
At 200 yds 5 rds consistantly hover around an inch.
Every stock mounted op rod guide design has done this for me - I have built several Sage and AKM norcs for others and they all perform the same . I have also built epoxy bedded GI stocks and they are close to but not as accurate as free float from op rod guide designs.The Sage and AKM designs keep the same group size but print lower as the gun gets hotter and the barrel stretches. GI stocks also print lower but the groups open up considerably as the heat increases.
I have only built one Troy (2nd generation) so far and it shot poorly in comparison. The first generation design made sense but the new model is to loose where it counts.
Right on ... I am a fan of the Op Rod Guide freefloated designs as well.
This is valuable confirmation.
The Sage and AKM designs keep the same group size but print lower as the gun gets hotter and the barrel stretches. GI stocks also print lower but the groups open up considerably as the heat increases.
This is valuable confirmation.
The Sage and AKM designs keep the same group size but print lower as the gun gets hotter and the barrel stretches. GI stocks also print lower but the groups open up considerably as the heat increases.
squid1230
CGN frequent flyer
. . .you mean gun, right?
New test
Today I shot groups from a bedded tuned norc with a standard gas piston assembly then swapped to a tig welded ferrule plate gas piston assembly.
It made a difference - only very slightly tighter groups - BUT ! - NO fliers and less downward heat drift !
Conclusion - the bullet placement consistency is well worth doing for standard stocks - a cheap improvement !
Today I shot groups from a bedded tuned norc with a standard gas piston assembly then swapped to a tig welded ferrule plate gas piston assembly.
It made a difference - only very slightly tighter groups - BUT ! - NO fliers and less downward heat drift !
Conclusion - the bullet placement consistency is well worth doing for standard stocks - a cheap improvement !
Next test
As in 45 ACP KINGS post re different pistons affecting accuracy -
I have about a half dozen different pistons - some the same diameter - some different - gonna try em all and see wha hoppens -
Gotta wait fer monthly checks tho - damn .308 is spensive -----
been shootin my old stock fer 25 years - gettin low --
As in 45 ACP KINGS post re different pistons affecting accuracy -
I have about a half dozen different pistons - some the same diameter - some different - gonna try em all and see wha hoppens -
Gotta wait fer monthly checks tho - damn .308 is spensive -----
been shootin my old stock fer 25 years - gettin low --
Exactly what I did. Italian Garand sight, and then I added a NM aperature. It will give you the same degree of precision as the whole NM rear sight group. I haven't had the chance to try it at longer ranges, but I like what I've seen on paper at short range
