looking to start building an AR, need to find noveske lower

50calshooter said:
Your wrong, John selects and orders his own steel bar stock, serializes each piece and machines his barrels form scratch. He uses pac-nors facility to produce his barrels and he uses his own tooling and processes to do this.

Check your facts bud.
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Wow, nice attitude, bud.

I did a little research. OK, he specs the steel, then gives it to Pac Nor and they then, wait for it, machine it for him, sounds like he doesn't even contour it himself. They give it back to him and he does some final work (chambering?) to it before letting it out the door.

Certainly sounds like they're made by Pac Nor to me. So he specs the materials and designed some of the tooling, someone else still makes it.

I'm not knocking him for his methods, most do the same and subcontracting work is the norm in any type of manufacturing.
 
Leg said:
Wow, nice attitude, bud.

I did a little research. OK, he specs the steel, then gives it to Pac Nor and they then, wait for it, machine it for him, sounds like he doesn't even contour it himself. They give it back to him and he does some final work (chambering?) to it before letting it out the door.

Certainly sounds like they're made by Pac Nor to me. So he specs the materials and designed some of the tooling, someone else still makes it.

I'm not knocking him for his methods, most do the same and subcontracting work is the norm in any type of manufacturing.
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I never had an attitude, sorry if I came off that way.

John used to be an employee at Pac-nor, hence the great working relationship between both of them. John essentially sub-contracts the use of pac-nors facility for their machinery. When the pac-nor employees clock out, John's crew along with some pac-nor employees go to work. All the tooling used to produce his barrels are John's, not pac-nor's, all the manufacturing processes and protocols are John's not pac-nor's. The only thing pac-nor about John's barrels are the machines he uses to make them. This is fact, don't dumb it down to sound like something else. Pac-nor has absolutely nothing to do with Noveske barrels.

Again, John selects his own bar stock steel, pulls it off the delivery truck and serializes each piece. Each piece of steel is then tracked through the manufacturing process from start to finish. Your info is vague and mis-leading. When talking about a company I prefer to speak accurately. All this info came straight from the horses mouth and I was also able to confirm this info in my personal dealings with Noveske, not John, but his staff.

Not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to clear things up, lots of rumors and false info about Noveske. John produces his barrels from start to finish, simple as that.

:cheers:
 
JohnnyNitrous said:
Well, there's no way I will be paying 450-500 for one.
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Well, that's why you buy their assembled uppers or complete rifles.

The Noveske branded receivers or Noveske branded rails aren't worth the trouble on their own as they don't do the job any better than any similar speced parts.
 
A lower - assuming it is to spec and 99% are, is a lower, there isn't 10 cents worth of value difference between them, pretty much the only way to kill any lower is to monster the pin locations until they're pear shaped.
 
FPembleton said:
Well, that's why you buy their assembled uppers or complete rifles.

The Noveske branded receivers or Noveske branded rails aren't worth the trouble on their own as they don't do the job any better than any similar speced parts.
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enefgee said:
A lower - assuming it is to spec and 99% are, is a lower, there isn't 10 cents worth of value difference between them, pretty much the only way to kill any lower is to monster the pin locations until they're pear shaped.
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I think the reason the OP is looking for the Gen2 lower is due to it's particular one piece forged design (not very many companies doing a one piece forged lower, I actually dont know of any others) which features a uniform trigger guard and flared magwell.. The Noveske name & cross doesn't hurt either... :cool:

I think there is some benefit to having forged vs machined billet, strength and durability wise that is...
 
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How can you tell the difference between the 1st and 2nd gen Noveske? Are they marked different?
Nevermind, I found them at Rainier Arms, and the difference is obvious !
 
Urban_Ops said:
How can you tell the difference between the 1st and 2nd gen Noveske? Are they marked different?
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They are completely different, the gen1's are your standard milspec type lower.

The gen2's are, like I mentioned above, a one piece forged lower, with a large flared magwell, uniform trigger guard and a large noveske cross on the left side.

Stck_3250-A-1024-Stick.jpg

stck3158.jpg

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stck3153.jpg
 
50calshooter said:
I never had an attitude, sorry if I came off that way.

John used to be an employee at Pac-nor, hence the great working relationship between both of them. John essentially sub-contracts the use of pac-nors facility for their machinery. When the pac-nor employees clock out, John's crew along with some pac-nor employees go to work. All the tooling used to produce his barrels are John's, not pac-nor's, all the manufacturing processes and protocols are John's not pac-nor's. The only thing pac-nor about John's barrels are the machines he uses to make them. This is fact, don't dumb it down to sound like something else. Pac-nor has absolutely nothing to do with Noveske barrels.

Again, John selects his own bar stock steel, pulls it off the delivery truck and serializes each piece. Each piece of steel is then tracked through the manufacturing process from start to finish. Your info is vague and mis-leading. When talking about a company I prefer to speak accurately. All this info came straight from the horses mouth and I was also able to confirm this info in my personal dealings with Noveske, not John, but his staff.

Not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to clear things up, lots of rumors and false info about Noveske. John produces his barrels from start to finish, simple as that.

:cheers:
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It's the "bud" that got me going. I can't stand that word and the majority of the time I've heard people using it it's been in a condescending tone.

Ok, I've included the words below, straight from the horses mouth:

Noveske: Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor’s shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor…I used to work there, and now what’s goin’ on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.

Source: DefenseReview.com (http://s.tt/13fm6)
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"when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling..."

While I may have simplified I don't think that I've distorted any facts. He plainly states that Pac-Nor machines his blanks, nothing about his employees showing up at Pac-Nor to do the work. In fact that would be most impractical since both companies are in different towns, they may be geographically close, I didn't check. I'm sure there would be liability issues as well.

I agree that they use his tooling, built to his specs but the way I read it it's Pac-Nor doing the work. They even stress relieve the barrels for him, what's left after that?

If I've missed anything then please share, the above interview was the only info I've been able to find that came from the man himself.
 
Leg said:
It's the "bud" that got me going. I can't stand that word and the majority of the time I've heard people using it it's been in a condescending tone.

Ok, I've included the words below, straight from the horses mouth:



"when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling..."

While I may have simplified I don't think that I've distorted any facts. He plainly states that Pac-Nor machines his blanks, nothing about his employees showing up at Pac-Nor to do the work. In fact that would be most impractical since both companies are in different towns, they may be geographically close, I didn't check. I'm sure there would be liability issues as well.

I agree that they use his tooling, built to his specs but the way I read it it's Pac-Nor doing the work. They even stress relieve the barrels for him, what's left after that?

If I've missed anything then please share, the above interview was the only info I've been able to find that came from the man himself.
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When I said John's crew I meant his original planing and development. In other words, John and his crew setup the manufacturing of his barrels, not pac-nor. Looking back, yeah, my post reads wrong, sorry I was in a rush.

The point I was making is that John has full control over how his barrels are produced, from the rifling to the contours and chambering. No different then his QC testing and standards, these processes are all designed and setup by John and his crew.

When they are done a run of Noveske barrels everything gets switched back to pac-nor standards and processes. That's the point I'm trying to make, my keyboard skills are lacking today. So that said, I don't think it's fair to say the barrels are made by pac-nor without explaining things further, while it maybe pac-nor machines and pac-nor employees, it is not a pac-nor barrel.
 
50calshooter said:
I think the reason the OP is looking for the Gen2 lower is due to it's particular one piece forged design (not very many companies doing a one piece forged lower, I actually dont know of any others) which features a uniform trigger guard and flared magwell.. The Noveske name & cross doesn't hurt either... :cool:

I think there is some benefit to having forged vs machined billet, strength and durability wise that is...
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Correct. I would gladly pay a bit extra to get the gen 2 version.
 
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