Looks like season is over , RCMP prohibits first 12ga

Sharps '74 said:
Some aren't going to appreciate this post. To them, I say - "Suck it up, wake up and face the new reality".

I hate to remind people of this, but back when we were trying to get IPSC started in Canada, (then known as "Combat Pistol Shooting), the two shooting sports who most adamantly opposed us were the shotgunners and the good ol' boys of the Regimental tie club in the BCRA.

We heard things like: "the rcmp won't like it", it's illegal to shoot from a holster in Canada", "it will attract an unsavoury element", "gun clubs will not allow it", "blood will flow in the streets,"etc., etc.

Trap/Skeet shooters were of the opinion that we were the Devil's Spawn and that they were "gentlemen sportsmen", the epitome of good Canadian citizenship. We even got blamed when the gov't came out with the FAC.

This was the era when the AR15 was not restricted and many went under ground when they were once again restricted.

At this juncture, it has come to pass that NO ONE'S guns of any type are safe. If left to the Liberals and the rcmp, we are the last generation to have access to many firearms types, even if they say we can't use them.

All we can do is store them until the day even that will be prohibited. "Buy back", you say .... ? It is to laugh. That will never happen and will be the end of any pretense we are a free people in a democratic country.
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So how exactly did the skeet/trap community collectively tell you they opposed you ? Did NSSA and ATA write a letter that informed you of their members views ?

In 30+ years of clay shooting I have never heard anyone that opposed pistol shooting of any kind. Or any kind of shooting for that matter.
 
We asked for their support in getting it established by encouraging it on club ranges. In other words - recognizing it as another shooting sport.

We wrote letters to governing bodies, including the Canadian Olympic Committee. Some of us were already members of the BCRA/DCRA and that door was closed. Even handgun Bulls Eye shooters turned their backs on us even though they were shooting the same guns as us!

It was an uphill fight all the way, necessitating a few "palace revolutions", new members voting out the old guard. Once it was established that it was a money maker for clubs, it was grudgingly approved.

Ironically, IPSC currently has "Observer Status" with the IOC, the aim being to get 3 Gun recognized as an Olympic sport. Fat chance of than now ....
 
Westward1 said:
Didn’t you “luckily” sell yours before the ban ?
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Sure did, just finalized the purchase of its replacement this morning. I sold it because it was right handed, I am left handed right eyed. I thought I would shoot right use my 'correct' eye and 'train' my handedness but it is way too uncomfortable to shoulder the gun right handed, and I couldn't get used to it (same reason i am about to sell my T/C venture .308) so I sold it and have now bought an ambidextrous Browning BPS.

Rob! said:
So, the bullet (1 3/8 oz jacketed slug) is commercially available. The cartridge in the video is hand loaded. They broke the chronograph on the second shot (standard slugs), so we have no idea what the velocity of the slug is. Where do you get the idea it could develop over 10,000 joules? (even if it were commercially available)

Cool video though.
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I got the numbers from here:

Back visiting here to tell about project a few of us over
on AR did..It is big wildcat called the 12GA From Hell.
First it is a long case we made by putting 12ga size rim
on bmg brass, and straightened case out.Two others put
it in big Borchardt falling block actions, and I put it in
a Savage 210 Bolt action with long heavy barrel and a heavy
stock..I got a hard Dixie Terminator 730 gr slug out at
2700 fps. The Borchardts will do more.Here is picture of our
case next to a regular plastic 12ga case, which by the way
can also be fired in our chambers.Ed Hubel
Click to expand...
 
Sharps '74 said:
Some aren't going to appreciate this post. To them, I say - "Suck it up, wake up and face the new reality".

I hate to remind people of this, but back when we were trying to get IPSC started in Canada, (then known as "Combat Pistol Shooting), the two shooting sports who most adamantly opposed us were the shotgunners and the good ol' boys of the Regimental tie club in the BCRA.

We heard things like: "the rcmp won't like it", it's illegal to shoot from a holster in Canada", "it will attract an unsavoury element", "gun clubs will not allow it", "blood will flow in the streets,"etc., etc.

Trap/Skeet shooters were of the opinion that we were the Devil's Spawn and that they were "gentlemen sportsmen", the epitome of good Canadian citizenship. We even got blamed when the gov't came out with the FAC.

This was the era when the AR15 was not restricted and many went under ground when they were once again restricted.

At this juncture, it has come to pass that NO ONE'S guns of any type are safe. If left to the Liberals and the rcmp, we are the last generation to have access to many firearms types, even if they say we can't use them.

All we can do is store them until the day even that will be prohibited. "Buy back", you say .... ? It is to laugh. That will never happen and will be the end of any pretense we are a free people in a democratic country.
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Excellent response Mr. Sharps.

I will enjoy the future court cases that will evolve when an overworked crown prosecutor who loves to shoot a little piece of clay on Sunday afternoon is hauled into the court of King Louis Trudeau and treated like he was a savage staple carrying Polack at the Vancouver International Airport.
 
At this point, the rcmp has a lot more to be concerned about than a bunch of people busting clay birds with shotguns - like covering their asses over the NS massacre and the many unanswered questions it has raised.

Our club has asked us NOT to bring our "black guns" to the range, but has not said word one about ceasing Trap practice with ANY shotgun, removable chokes or not.

This inconsistency is ridiculous, but shows the ineptitude of the Liberals in framing their disarmament jargon.
 
bdft said:
You've definitely got my support. Shotguns are just part of my arsenal of evil,evil,evil guns. Unfortunately, once the shotgunners get done arguing on CGN about what kind of tool to measure a shotgun bore and other important things, they will go back in their hole and back to "at least they won't take shotguns away".
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Once they get done arguing the second wave of bans will be here with some central storage for added measure and their shotguns will truly be on the official ban list or at the least be mandated to be stored outside of the home.
 
Sharps '74 said:
At this point, the rcmp has a lot more to be concerned about than a bunch of people busting clay birds with shotguns - like covering their asses over the NS massacre and the many unanswered questions it has raised.

Our club has asked us NOT to bring our "black guns" to the range, but has not said word one about ceasing Trap practice with ANY shotgun, removable chokes or not.

This inconsistency is ridiculous, but shows the ineptitude of the Liberals in framing their disarmament jargon.
Click to expand...

I am curious. If the club had not told it’s member to keep your black guns at home, how many do you think would have appeared at the range since the OIC was announced ?
 
Good question. My wife is the club secretary (a "black gun owner", 3 Gun shooter, IPSC, CAS) as am I. I am a director as are other "black gun" owners. We would be struck from the BoD if we took our "black guns" to the range and that would be counterproductive. The entire range could be closed. BUT - if an organized protest across the country urged people to bring their "black guns" to the range, it would make a statement.

There aren't enough jail cells for all of us and the courts would be back logged more than they are right now. But that would take balls I think that Canadians lack. Our true national traits are compliance and acquiescence when it comes to firearms laws.

I am of the opinion that the ONLY weapon we have left is TOTAL, MASSIVE, COMPLETE NON-COMPLIANCE of any and all new regulations.

Every other tactic like playing "nice" within the system, letters, petitions, rallies etc. have brought us to the current state of affairs. The "system" is broken and has been for a long time. We just didn't want to recognize it.

Canada is "broken" as a democratic country. We are a secular, multicultural, pluralistic, gender non-specific, "post national state with no core history or values worth preserving" (according to JT), with a government embarked on a campaign of civil disarmament unparalleled since the Nazi regime - one gun, one calibre, one bore size, one barrel length, one action type at a time.

Not that we didn't know it was coming. Lloyd Axworthy, Alan Rock and Sharon Carstairs ALL told us and the world repeatedly that the ultimate goal was to render Canada gun-less society within a few generations, under the guise of "public safety" of course.

So far they are right on course. Even they must be amazed at how easy it was due to the "perfect storm" created by the NS massacre during the Covid 19 pandemic, a totally unscrupulous act of sheer political opportunism - "never let a good crisis go to waste".

All of the families of the NS victims had not yet been notified when that scum-sucker of a PM made his announcement. How's that for sheer "grave dancing"? Even worse than the annual grave dance for the victims of L'Ecole Polytechnique.

The Dalai Lama and Ghandi are on record as having said that it is right to disobey an unjust law. I did my basic with the 2nd BN PPCLI and in a military law class we were told never to obey an order we KNEW was unjust according to the laws of humanity. This so we would never say like the Nazis - "I was just following orders."

If I am wrong in anything I've said above, please refute it in a logical, non-inflammatory way and not the CGN default of a personal attack.
 
We were asked not to shoot our prohib black guns at the range because it may(will?) endanger the clubs restricted status. As with the rest of you, the trap range was open for business. I took some measuring tools with me and measured a couple of prohib trap shotguns. No one was the least bit concerned. Personally, I think we should all just ignore the laws and see what happens. Of course, nobody wants to be the first one busted.
 
No, of course not, but I have to believe that the rcmp has a lot more on it's collective mind right now than the bores of our Trap/Skeet guns.
 
Sharps '74 said:
Good question. My wife is the club secretary (a "black gun owner", 3 Gun shooter, IPSC, CAS) as am I. I am a director as are other "black gun" owners. We would be struck from the BoD if we took our "black guns" to the range and that would be counterproductive. The entire range could be closed. BUT - if an organized protest across the country urged people to bring their "black guns" to the range, it would make a statement.

There aren't enough jail cells for all of us and the courts would be back logged more than they are right now. But that would take balls I think that Canadians lack. Our true national traits are compliance and acquiescence when it comes to firearms laws.

I am of the opinion that the ONLY weapon we have left is TOTAL, MASSIVE, COMPLETE NON-COMPLIANCE of any and all new regulations.

Every other tactic like playing "nice" within the system, letters, petitions, rallies etc. have brought us to the current state of affairs. The "system" is broken and has been for a long time. We just didn't want to recognize it.

Canada is "broken" as a democratic country. We are a secular, multicultural, pluralistic, gender non-specific, "post national state with no core history or values worth preserving" (according to JT), with a government embarked on a campaign of civil disarmament unparalleled since the Nazi regime - one gun, one calibre, one bore size, one barrel length, one action type at a time.

Not that we didn't know it was coming. Lloyd Axworthy, Alan Rock and Sharon Carstairs ALL told us and the world repeatedly that the ultimate goal was to render Canada gun-less society within a few generations, under the guise of "public safety" of course.

So far they are right on course. Even they must be amazed at how easy it was due to the "perfect storm" created by the NS massacre during the Covid 19 pandemic, a totally unscrupulous act of sheer political opportunism - "never let a good crisis go to waste".

All of the families of the NS victims had not yet been notified when that scum-sucker of a PM made his announcement. How's that for sheer "grave dancing"? Even worse than the annual grave dance for the victims of L'Ecole Polytechnique.

The Dalai Lama and Ghandi are on record as having said that it is right to disobey an unjust law. I did my basic with the 2nd BN PPCLI and in a military law class we were told never to obey an order we KNEW was unjust according to the laws of humanity. This so we would never say like the Nazis - "I was just following orders."

If I am wrong in anything I've said above, please refute it in a logical, non-inflammatory way and not the CGN default of a personal attack.
Click to expand...

1)Internet personal attacks are for the weak and stupid.
2)Thanks for answering my question.
3)I am certainly not suggesting you are in any way wrong.
 
bdft said:
For God's sake, people, break out a caliper and measure for yourself. Some guns do measure over 20mm in places but many do not. None of my fixed choke Remington Trap guns measure over nor does my Perazzi or Frigon. Maybe yours does, there is a tremendous variation in 12G barrels but you won't know until you measure.
That video in the link is strange. Either he doesn't know how to zero the gauge or the barrel is badly bulged. A 12g chamber is .80, how did they get .818 half way down the barrel?
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Many 12ga barrels have larger bores in the middle of the barrel.

It does not matter what the RCMP of Bill Blair say. It is out of their hands. The judicial system will now support, or rescind the law.

The OIC was written with language that is far to broad. Likely will be struck down.
 
bdft said:
We were asked not to shoot our prohib black guns at the range because it may(will?) endanger the clubs restricted status. As with the rest of you, the trap range was open for business. I took some measuring tools with me and measured a couple of prohib trap shotguns. No one was the least bit concerned. Personally, I think we should all just ignore the laws and see what happens. Of course, nobody wants to be the first one busted.
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If you get busted it could create a world of hurt on your out of country business or personal travel plans.
 
Sqr said:
If you get busted it could create a world of hurt on your out of country business or personal travel plans.
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If you get convicted. First you have to be arrested, then charged, then go to court and then convicted. It wouldn't surprise me if this shotgun prohibition turned out like the 10/22 mag ban. No one ever gets charged because the RCMP don't want to see it in front of a judge.
 
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