looooong range milsurp dilemma!

ArtyMan

ArtyMan

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hey guys,

For a while ive been in quite the dilemma, which milsurp rifle to shoot distance with up to about 600 or so yrds. I have taken a look at the different calibers (.303/30-06/8mm/308/7.62x54R etc...) and a few rifles have come across my list as possible choices. I have considered the 1903 springfield, German k98, P14, P17, No1Mk3, No4, Ross etc...

I know everyone has there opinions, and everything has its pros and cons, but what are your personal experiences with shooting long distance milsurp. Whats available?

I have an almost mint, unfired looking original No4 Mk1 Longbranch, but am hesitant to shoot it, so I have no idea what to do!
 
Simo Hayha achieved over 700 kills, split between a Mosin-Nagant and a Suomi K31 SMG.
Using only iron sights.

I'd say that's a pretty good indication to effectiveness and accuracy - mind, the trick is finding a Mosin that was picked for Sniper duty over the regular Grunt rifles.
 
Simo Hayha dind't make all those kills at 600 yds. Personally, I would go with a Winchester P-14 or M-17, Lithgow No1 Mk3 or a Ross. All of those rifles and calibres listed are capable of hitting a target at 600 yds. The trick is to find one with a good bore.
 
Actually Simo Hayha didn't even use a sniper rifle, he used a standard M/28-30 Civic Guard rifle.
 
Is Simo Hayha the milsurp version of chuck norris?

OP: are you using a scope or going with iron sights?
 
You have asked a very important question about rifle design. We know each of those cartridges is more than capable. At our milsurp matches the winningest rifles are the ones with an aperature back sight that has repeatable adjustments. At long range, interchangeable front sight elements will give the shooter control for diminishing sizes of aiming mark as the distances go back.

The No.4 is the best single choice of the lot by those variables. The P'14/M1917 would be my choice over the 1903 Springfield, but that is from lack of exposure. The others, sad to say, are not suited for long range shooting in my opinion. The Swiss rifle is a marvelous piece of engineering, but it has open sights, as do all the Mausers.
 
At this point, the only reason to not go optics, would be the lack of $ on my part. I have about a 700-800$ ish dollar budget
 
How about a K31 and add the new 1,000yd adjustable Swiss Products Diopter sight?

Here is mine:
P1010203-2.jpg
 
and in regards to the P14 M17 debate, which, in the same shape, would get better accuracy? I just have about 500 rds of .303 and was wondering if it would be worth it to trade it for .30-06 and go with an M17?
 
I own and have shot several P14, M1917, No4's and Mosins, and none of them can touch either of my K31's - albeit I have only shot to 300 yds. Perhaps the K31's "inferior" sights will really show their disadvantage past 300 yds, but only against a gun that is very close to it at 300 yds.

With a K31, you are virtually guaranteed the following:

- an excellent barrel. It will have a bore size that is an excellent fit for any of the multitide of 308 bullets. The chamber will be "tight" and the leade will allow the bullet of your choice to be seated as close or as far from the rifling as you wish and still fit in the magazine;
- excellent bedding; and
- a very good and solid stock design.

If you can pick from among 20 P14's or No4's, you might find one with an excellent barrel with a 0.311" or 0.312" bore, and a workable amount of leade that can make use of the limited 31 cal Match bullets (please show me the list). More likely it will go 0.314"+. You can't change the two-piece stock and if the rules allow a full bedding job, it could rival an "out of the box" K31. I have a M39 - nice trigger, but the bore is largish and it's long and heavy (a club-like stock). It shoots ok, but I'll never bring it to any competition I hope to win.
 
Just over $350.00-$375.00 with the original Anschütz Iris it comes with.
The Gehmann iris in the above picture is over $200.00 by itself.

The shooters edge has GP11 ammo. .50-.60 a round I believe
and you can reload with Match .308 bullets.


Or a clamp-on scope mount: this one with a Bushnell 3200 10x
P1010047-2.jpg




Btw: Forget about decent, consistent accuracy with WWII era surplus ammo, it's just too old, even if at one time it WAS accurate.
 
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i had planned to use the milsurp .303 for getting the feel of the rifle, and then moving up to handloads or factory for the distance work
 
i do however think surplus ammo is under appreciated. I have used a Mosin carbine with surplus ammo out to 400 with no problems
 
my vote goes for the k-31 with diopter sight that diopter can provide or a fine swedish mauser1896 elite sight or the cg63 target rifles both the swiss and swede rifles were built for quality and ability with out the wartime pressures that everyone else was faced not to say that if you get your hands on the right enfield p17 or mauser k98 you would be displeased especialy a dcra 308 enfield or a new aia 308 enfield
 
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