looooong range milsurp dilemma!

A VG condition Ross Mk II** civilian target rifle is also hard to beat. A CG63 / CG80 is also a very good way to go (even if not really WWII era...) and a M/96 Civilian Target is not that hard to find. Plus they come with very high quality receiver sights.
 
I agree with Andy on many things, including his remarks above about choosing rifles. (Great minds think alike, but fools will never differ.) The K31 was not made under impaired wartime supply or materials conditions, or battle-ready acceptance standards, and by men reputed to know what they were doing. These give it many advantages. BUT ... no soldier would (or should) have used the diopter sight in combat. It is a target shooting accessory I associate with the Swiss civil marksmanship traditions.

To get back to your subsidiary question the Pattern 1914 was intended to replace the No.1 rifle, but the war overtook events. These are probably the first rifles built with modern assembly line principles, semi-skilled workers, and highly dispersed subcontractors. The factories were built from bare fields with new equipment and quite progressive techniques. Except for the cartridge the M1917 is relatively indistinguishable from the British rifle. For a while these were limited standard sniper rifles in both wars, and somewhat competitive as target rifles postwar.
 
There is a mountain of data on developing match loads for the .30-06. 175/180 gr match bullets in handloads are proven performers at extended ranges. There are three excellent MILSURP platforms for the .30-06 to choose from-the M1903 Springfield(personal favourite),the M1917 Enfield,and the M1 Garand.

If the barrel,headspace and bedding are sound in your No4 LE I suggest experimenting with it first to get a feel for shooting at extended ranges and to wring out the rifle itself. Again,handloads bring out the best in any rifle. For the .303 try the Sierra 180gr flatbase and Sierra 174gr match bullets for shooting @ 300m plus. Get some heavy IVI brass and necksize it after initial firing. You may just find that you already have the solution.
 
I'll let someone else say a few words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF8KOJWsJq4

Would I use diopters on the battle field?
Yes, If I couldn't get my hands on a decent light gather scope, you bet.

SMLE rifles were issued with target sight during WWI with various type of target sights.

By the way, when we target shoot for our pleasure, aren't we all civilians?
:stirthepot2:
 
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In my opinion, and experience, either the #4 Mk1 or a Garand will hit a man sized target at a 1000 yds if you do your part. That being said, I had the priviledge of shooting a fellow CGN'ers 6.5 x 55 and loved it. The 6.5 is a tremendous long range cartridge. I personally prefer the sights on a Garand for long range shooting. Best of luck and hope this helps
 
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MILSURP= accuracy

I would go with the swede model96, I have one in the original sniper configuration, this rifle will shoot 3/4" 3 shot groups at 100M consistantly.
A keeper for sure, Bill
 
I think i will convert my No4Mk1 into a No4Mk1(T) clone. It seems as though the enfield should be more then suited for the work I want to do, plus, I already have one,too easy! Now the challenge, does anyone know where I can score a repro scope/mount/screws/cheeck piece? im sure an original would be well outside of my budget
 
ArtyMan said:
I think i will convert my No4Mk1 into a No4Mk1(T) clone. It seems as though the enfield should be more then suited for the work I want to do, plus, I already have one,too easy! Now the challenge, does anyone know where I can score a repro scope/mount/screws/cheeck piece? im sure an original would be well outside of my budget
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Ahem. Anxious to try out your new nickname of Bubba Man?

There are plenty of no-gunsmithing mounts available that will keep your No.4 undrilled. A straight tube Lyman Alaskan with a post and horizontal crosshair would be era-appropriate. E-pay is a good place to shop for a replacement butt and repro cheekrest. There are guys posting all the time.

To recreate the jigs and set-ups used to build No.4T rifles during WWII, you need to be a craftsman with a well equipped workshop. Peter Laidler wrote the modern books on the conversion process, and he describes how tens of thousands of BSA rifles were made one at a time on single pieces of equipment by less than a handful of highly skilled machinists at Holland and Holland. Enfield and Long Branch's T rifles took just as long for the same reasons. The installation is deceptively simple, but a careful balance of vertical and horizontal resistence on individually prepared bearing surfaces.
 
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So why not try your No4 out at 600 and see what it does. Find some 174gr. Match ammo, (PMC) and give her a rip.

I found my No4 Mk1* Savage will do a fine number on 500 Meter silhouette rams, from prone. That's with some reloaded 174gr. sierra MK's, mind you.
 
ArtyMan said:
At this point, the only reason to not go optics, would be the lack of $ on my part. I have about a 700-800$ ish dollar budget
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Ok, this may be foolish, maybe I'm missing something in this thread (read the posts quickly) but with that money, why not get a Mosin sniper clone being sold these days for just about that amount, which has the right mount and scope type?

Lou
 
I own two Mosins, however this Enfield I have is in great shape, and I think it is scope worthy. The last thing I want to do is bubba anything, thats why I asked if it would be considered a bubba to scope it. Would a no smith mount be the way to go? if so which are of decent quality and will hold a zero? As of now I have not done ANYTHING to the rifle, im still making decisions, its ok, I havnt bubbad or done anything yet lol
 
If you have a nice original No4, don't drill the receiver. Get a S&K no-gunsmith mount, it apparently is the best one that doesn't bring you in Bubba's World.

Lou
 
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