Lothar Walther barrels for T1X CZ Ruger
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
I just contacted Travis at AGS - airgun source.com and he is in the process of getting me a price/delivery time for a Mach2 barrel for a CZ455/457.
So looks promising to get them in just waiting on what the damage will be.
I did get a quote for a Lilja from Go Big Tactical but suspect the LW barrels to be less $$ and quality/accuracy could be the same?
So looks promising to get them in just waiting on what the damage will be.
I did get a quote for a Lilja from Go Big Tactical but suspect the LW barrels to be less $$ and quality/accuracy could be the same?
Just received a reply back from Travis:
"Hi,
Price would be about $489 Canadian and roughly 6-8 weeks.
Regards"
I am waiting on an invoice as going to be ordering one in
Plan is to get the barrel which will force me to purchase the rifle - gives me an opportunity to window shop for that "WOW" factor wood grain!!
Any other information received will be communicated.
Cheers
Update on my barrel.......long overdue.
Due to Covid 19, the barrel was stuck in customs for months.
I received the barrel a month or so back and just got it out for its first sight in and groupings today.
I decided on a CZ 457 Pro Varmint to house my new Mach2 barrel rather than a model with nice wood figure.......go figure - times are changing!
The accuracy was not what I was hoping for shooting both Eley and Hornady rounds.
Did some checking on the headspace and its bordering on excessive @ .050"
Will look at setting the barrel back .007" as from what I have read .043" is the golden headspace number (comments on that would certainly be welcome).
On average the rim thickness for the Eley is .035" and .038 for the Hornady.
I have a life time supply of the Eley ammo so would use it exclusively for this barrel.
Will also get her properly fitted with pillar and glass bedding to help girdle in those groups
Any other suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Due to Covid 19, the barrel was stuck in customs for months.
I received the barrel a month or so back and just got it out for its first sight in and groupings today.
I decided on a CZ 457 Pro Varmint to house my new Mach2 barrel rather than a model with nice wood figure.......go figure - times are changing!
The accuracy was not what I was hoping for shooting both Eley and Hornady rounds.
Did some checking on the headspace and its bordering on excessive @ .050"
Will look at setting the barrel back .007" as from what I have read .043" is the golden headspace number (comments on that would certainly be welcome).
On average the rim thickness for the Eley is .035" and .038 for the Hornady.
I have a life time supply of the Eley ammo so would use it exclusively for this barrel.
Will also get her properly fitted with pillar and glass bedding to help girdle in those groups
Any other suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Life long supply ?
1 ) you are not shooting much
2) you are not planning to live long !! Lol ��
Just kidding. How much is a life supply ? There is many quality in Eley - witch one you are using ? Just curious to know what work.
1 ) you are not shooting much
2) you are not planning to live long !! Lol ��
Just kidding. How much is a life supply ? There is many quality in Eley - witch one you are using ? Just curious to know what work.
While .043 may be the ideal headspace, SAAMI specs show a range from .043 (minimum) to .051 (maximum).
SAAMI has the same headspace specs for .22LR. Ultimately, the barrel quality itself may play a more important role in accuracy than headspace that is close to the maximum.
I don't have a T1X on hand. If the barrel tenon is in as far as it goes so the shoulder contacts the receiver, does this produce the .050" headspace currently experienced? How does the Lothar Walther barrel tenon compare to the factory barrel's?
SAAMI has the same headspace specs for .22LR. Ultimately, the barrel quality itself may play a more important role in accuracy than headspace that is close to the maximum.
I don't have a T1X on hand. If the barrel tenon is in as far as it goes so the shoulder contacts the receiver, does this produce the .050" headspace currently experienced? How does the Lothar Walther barrel tenon compare to the factory barrel's?
While .043 may be the ideal headspace, SAAMI specs show a range from .043 (minimum) to .051 (maximum).
SAAMI has the same headspace specs for .22LR. Ultimately, the barrel quality itself may play a more important role in accuracy than headspace that is close to the maximum.
I don't have a T1X on hand. If the barrel tenon is in as far as it goes so the shoulder contacts the receiver, does this produce the .050" headspace currently experienced? How does the Lothar Walther barrel tenon compare to the factory barrel's?
Hi grauhanen, thanks for the reply.......not that it matters, this is on a CZ 457 not a Tikka T1X
After what I spent on this barrel I want to milk out as much accuracy as I can muster so trying to line up all I can to achieve the best results.
Certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer so doing lots of reading and hopefully will learn lots in the process!
I was quite surprised the barrel tenon length on the Lothar Walther is identical to the factory CZ barrel (1.189") - so both are close to the maximum headspace as receiver to bolt face = 1.239"
Just going by what I have read, all things being equal, a number closer to the minimum headspace should produce a more accurate rifle??
From what I have read, if you take in consideration the rim thickness, .006" between bolt face and rim base to be ideal. If I use only Eley ammo (average rim thickness of .035"), I should be able to get away with a headspace of .041ish.
Yes, the barrel tenon is bottomed out to the receiver as there are no shims presently used which is why I assume I would have to set back the barrel shoulder to achieve the desired result?
Anxious to absorb all the information you would like to share.......cheers!
My apologies about misidenfying the rifle. For some reason I had the Tikka in mind.
If it means anything, Bill Calfee says in his book and elsewhere that headspace has nothing to do with rimfire accuracy. Speaking about .22LR (which has the same headspace as 17 mach2), Calfee said, "If your headspace is safe, and if you have killer ignition with it, the headsapce itself, no matter what it is, has absolutely nothing to do with rimfire accuracy...
I recommend setting HS at .043", with the ammo we have available today.....same as I've done for years now...." h ttp://www.wwaccuracy.com/showthread.php?t=4344
I don't know how to specifically evaluate ignition, but in the end a safe headspace is desirable, and as close to .043" is most desirable.
Lilja drop-in barrels for CZ rifles have a longer tenon that measures 1.200". These barrels are supplied with shims to achieve the headspace the shooter wants by using the correct shims on the barrel tenon.
Since the Lothar Walther drop-in barrel has a shorter tenon, shimming it won't achieve the desired results. If headspace is excessive as the LW barrel is, it would appear that setting back the barrel shoulder as you describe would be one way to achieve the headspace sought. The other way would be shimming the bolt.
(As a note for the general reader, when measuring tenon and receiver to bolt face lengths, a depth micrometer will give more reliable results than a typical digital caliper. The depth micrometer is better designed for this purpose.)
For some information on how to shim the CZ 457 bolt, there's a thread on RFC with some details and photos (which for convenience are reproduced below). See post #39 here
h ttps://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1163215&page=3
Regarding rim thickness, if 17 M2 ammo is anything like .22LR, there will be variation from round to round.
Regarding accuracy, like 17hmr ammo, there is no such thing as 17 M2 match ammo and as a result there can be considerable inconsistency in a box of ammo. This may impact accuracy expectations.
Hi grauhanen, thanks for the link regarding shimming the bolt.....will go do some reading on that as would eliminate machining my barrel - sounds like an easier process to see if results improve.
On a side note - I did borrow a micrometer depth gauge after struggling with using a digital caliper to ensure an accurate reading.
With that said I did come up with a way that duplicated the micrometer results by using a washer over the receiver to ensure the caliper end would be square to the bolt face (remember to zero the caliper end as fully closed is not necessarily a zero calibration for the caliper end). Then simply subtracted the washer thickness from my reading - took 6 readings and averaged, the result was the same as micrometer reading. The tenon measurement is easier to do with a caliper as slide can rest flat against it to ensure it is square against the barrel shoulder - same, took 6 measurements and averaged.
Another trick I read on RFC, if you want to get a good idea of what your headspace is without removing the barrel - over anneal a spent case, dimple/bulge the rim face with a punch with the case setting on a 1/4" washer. Chamber that case and measure the rim thickness = headspace. I did this to see if I could get consistent results and it worked quite well.
I did just start reading about primer ignition relative to pin strikes (depth & location). I will include pictures of spent cases from both my Mach2 rifles (CZ & Anschutz) so you can give me your thoughts on the appearance of those.
Interestingly, my Anschutz shoots ~1/4" tighter groups (using the same ammo lot) than the Walther barrel and headspace is close to the same so there is a chance of better pin/ignition strikes on the Annie verses the CZ? Pics to follow.......cheers.
On a side note - I did borrow a micrometer depth gauge after struggling with using a digital caliper to ensure an accurate reading.
With that said I did come up with a way that duplicated the micrometer results by using a washer over the receiver to ensure the caliper end would be square to the bolt face (remember to zero the caliper end as fully closed is not necessarily a zero calibration for the caliper end). Then simply subtracted the washer thickness from my reading - took 6 readings and averaged, the result was the same as micrometer reading. The tenon measurement is easier to do with a caliper as slide can rest flat against it to ensure it is square against the barrel shoulder - same, took 6 measurements and averaged.
Another trick I read on RFC, if you want to get a good idea of what your headspace is without removing the barrel - over anneal a spent case, dimple/bulge the rim face with a punch with the case setting on a 1/4" washer. Chamber that case and measure the rim thickness = headspace. I did this to see if I could get consistent results and it worked quite well.
I did just start reading about primer ignition relative to pin strikes (depth & location). I will include pictures of spent cases from both my Mach2 rifles (CZ & Anschutz) so you can give me your thoughts on the appearance of those.
Interestingly, my Anschutz shoots ~1/4" tighter groups (using the same ammo lot) than the Walther barrel and headspace is close to the same so there is a chance of better pin/ignition strikes on the Annie verses the CZ? Pics to follow.......cheers.
Left side is 1761 firing pin
Right side is 457 firing pin
Micro analyzing pin strikes is new to me so not exactly sure what to look for?
I have read where people will file off edges and imperfections but.......as of now that is over my head!
Right side is 457 firing pin
Micro analyzing pin strikes is new to me so not exactly sure what to look for?
I have read where people will file off edges and imperfections but.......as of now that is over my head!
Attachments
1) Hope to shoot more but have too many caliber choices so the 17 M2 is only used in the right conditions - little to no wind and 60 - 100 yards with the only thing on the menu are gophers and some paper to hone my skills ;-)
2) "Life long" - Poor choice of words........I have enough do dedicate the Walther barrel to Eley which should get me through till I've either lost my mind or die from Covid!
To date I have used only Eley and Hornady and both are well within minute of gopher - will say love the smell of the Eley powder
Don't care for the boxes though!Stay safe!!
