Or one often reads how a .308 is marginal for large ungulates but a .270 is a classic choice. Similarly, the .308 is marginal but the same bullet pushed faster from a .300Win is a hammer on them out to very extended ranges. Makes no sense, if the .300 is hell on wheel at 600yrds that means the same bullet from the .308 is likely as fast at 400 if not more (unless we are talking 200gr plus)
love for the lowly boring .308
- Thread starter DAJA
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Or one often reads how a .308 is marginal for large ungulates but a .270 is a classic choice. Similarly, the .308 is marginal but the same bullet pushed faster from a .300Win is a hammer on them out to very extended ranges. Makes no sense, if the .300 is hell on wheel at 600yrds that means the same bullet from the .308 is likely as fast at 400 if not more (unless we are talking 200gr plus)
What I really like about the .308 Win are all the wonderful children it has sired: the .243 Win, the .260 Rem, the 7mm08, the .338 Fed and, of course, the .358 Win (have I missed any?).
You have to admit that's a pretty impressive family of cartridges. I, for one, am very grateful that the .308 Win came along and made the short action rifle such a versatile platform
for me to enjoy.
You have to admit that's a pretty impressive family of cartridges. I, for one, am very grateful that the .308 Win came along and made the short action rifle such a versatile platform
for me to enjoy.
That is good news. I happen to have 110 and 130 grain ttsx. Will give it a try on animals.
Throttle_monkey1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No problem, I'd start at about 48 grains and work your way up.
Hm hmm hmmm hm hmmmmmmmmmmm
Somewhere on this 'lectronick stuff it is mentioned it's good grizz medicine.
The 358win is in there above the 308 and the 30-awt six.
The Outsider
CGN Regular
From Chuck Hawkes....
.308 Winchester, 180 grain at 2620 fps - 2743 foot pounds muzzle energy
.358 Winchester, 180 grain at 2700 fps - 2914 foot pounds muzzle energy
The .358 has a 200 - 300 ft. lb. advantage over the .308.
In fact, the .358's energy level is very close to the 30-06, while it throws medium bore slugs at moderate velocities.
2400 fps has long been advocated as an ideal velocity for penetration with medium to large bore African cartridges.
Like I said, the 308 is nice, but the 358 is nicer, at least for the big game that I hunt.
.308 Winchester, 180 grain at 2620 fps - 2743 foot pounds muzzle energy
.358 Winchester, 180 grain at 2700 fps - 2914 foot pounds muzzle energy
The .358 has a 200 - 300 ft. lb. advantage over the .308.
In fact, the .358's energy level is very close to the 30-06, while it throws medium bore slugs at moderate velocities.
2400 fps has long been advocated as an ideal velocity for penetration with medium to large bore African cartridges.
Like I said, the 308 is nice, but the 358 is nicer, at least for the big game that I hunt.
That's comparing bullets of similar weight; if you compare bullets of similar sectional density, which is how I think different calibres should be compared, the .308 is superior in spite of the lower velocity and energy. A 180 gr. .358 bullet has an s.d of .201, roughly the equivalent of a 130 gr. .308" bullet. The nearest equivalent to a 180 gr. .308 bullet would be 250 grs. in .358". A 180 gr. .358" bullet would actually be a good weight for a handgun bullet in .357 mag.
In spite of all the talk of going to lighter weights with the monometal bullets, s.d. still counts when factoring ballistic coefficient and penetration at the terminal end.
I prefer a minimum barrel length of 20" for the .308 Win and I thought the Ruger M77 RCM rifle chambered in .308 was a real beauty.
Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to get one while they were still making them.
Love .308 and .243!
Had them both and thought will never sell...
Now again want to get .308(it will be third time) or nice lightweight rifle in .260 Rem would be a pleasure.
They hardly ever come around and cant remember when i saw package of .260 in stores last time.
More than 7-8 years ago Le Baron had sale for 7mm-08 but 260 i cant even recall when and where was last time i saw it.
Great round but just not used much on east coast anymore.
Had them both and thought will never sell...
Now again want to get .308(it will be third time) or nice lightweight rifle in .260 Rem would be a pleasure.
They hardly ever come around and cant remember when i saw package of .260 in stores last time.
More than 7-8 years ago Le Baron had sale for 7mm-08 but 260 i cant even recall when and where was last time i saw it.
Great round but just not used much on east coast anymore.
most of the guys at our deer camp shoot 308 - nice if you forget to bring ammo= my go to a Winchester 88 in 308 ..jist for fun we shoot 7.62x54, 270, 270wsm.30-06, 6.5x55, 12 and 20 gauge slugs, 243, 35 remington,30-30...funny - all the deer fall down.....oops missed the crossbows and 50 cal black powder----- it's not the gun .it's the guy [or gal] behind it
The Outsider
CGN Regular
Superior for what size game?
I was referring to hunting Moose and Elk here in the west, with the real chance of running into a grizzly.
Sectional density is important for penetration, but if your judging by sectional density alone, then a 243 with a 100 grain bullet is almost equal to your 308 with a 165 grain bullet, (.242 vs .248) so why not just hunt with a 243?
According to that theory, all of the big magnum calibers are unnecessary, and all we really need are 243's.
Sectional density (along with bullet construction and impact velocity) are among the key factors in determining penetration, however
kinetic energy, the ability to do damage, is the most common measure of killing power for rifle bullets.
The 30-06 and even the .358 (for shorter range work) will give you more options as far as bullet weight goes, which makes them both more versatile and thus superior big game rifles.
All of the outfitters in this area won't take you on a grizzly hunt with anything less than a 300 WM.
A 308 might be fine back east, or if you can't handle recoil,
but no serious hunter here in the Rockies hunts with a 308.
Even my wife now uses a 300 WSM.
The 308 is a great cartridge for deer size game , but if you ever come out here, better bring something bigger.
Better off over gunned than under gunned where the game can kill you before you can kill the game.
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Again... you make me smile...
If the .308 is "marginal", then so is the .358... if the .358 is "great" then so is the .308.
Your first problem is quoting Chuck Hawkes like his fata is gospel...
But even from what you posted... the .358 load has 171 ft/lb over the .308 load, not "200-300"... 171 ft/lb is not noticeable on game in the field... it will not make a marginal cartridge into a great cartridge.
I own/shoot/reload the whole .308 family in several platforms... I appreciate them all for what they bring to the table... but the reality is, they share the same case. I love the .358 Win, but it's "greatness" is not at the expense of the .308 Win.
