Low pressure 12 gauge

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AchesNpains

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Just curious if anyone has experience loading low pressure shells for an old 12 gauge SXS. I have an old Belgium 12 SxS from the late 1800's that is not smokeless proofed but is reamed out for 2 3/4" shells. There seems to be some commercially available ammunition that is low pressure and light loads for these old guns but it isn't readily available. The gun is in good shape with a tight lock up and 'on face' as far as I can tell. Barrels seem quite good (minimal pitting). I've checked on Hodgdon's website but they don't list a recipe for this application. Remington gun club and Challenger shells available.
 
There is an article by Ross Seyfried on black powder and low pressure smokeless loads in Shooting Times, 2019.
Shooting Times website appears to be down right now.
 
AchesNpains said:
Just curious if anyone has experience loading low pressure shells for an old 12 gauge SXS. I have an old Belgium 12 SxS from the late 1800's that is not smokeless proofed but is reamed out for 2 3/4" shells. There seems to be some commercially available ammunition that is low pressure and light loads for these old guns but it isn't readily available. The gun is in good shape with a tight lock up and 'on face' as far as I can tell. Barrels seem quite good (minimal pitting). I've checked on Hodgdon's website but they don't list a recipe for this application. Remington gun club and Challenger shells available.
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You can load federal hulls with 700X and 7/8oz of shot that will give you around 5600 PSI pressure.
This is out of the Hodgdon's manual. I can't remember the wad but I BELIEVE it is a AA12SL.
Will have to check to be sure
Cat
 
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FIRST, have your old Belgian gun checked by a competent gunsmith to determine if it should be fired at all, especially as it has been modified to accept ammunition that it was not made to use. Assuming an age of perhaps 130 years old, consider that metallurgy was not as sophisticated as today and that over 100 years of wear, tear and abuse are also riding on that old girl. IF a gunsmith certifies it as safe to shoot, the advice to use low pressure ammo using Federal cases ( largest internal capacity, keeps pressures down), 700X powder ( performs well at low pressures), AA12SL wads ( fits the case and load, lowers pressures in straight walled cases) and 7/8 ounces of shot which is essentially a standard 20 gauge payload can give you great performing ammunition at minimal pressures. I’ve personally loaded and shot thousands of rounds of my favourite combination of these components in selected guns dating back to 1873 vintage but these guns were in exceptionally fine condition. An even better powder if you can find it is the discontinued IMR SR7625. Your gun, your fingers, your eyes, don’t take chances.
 
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AchesNpains said:
Just curious if anyone has experience loading low pressure shells for an old 12 gauge SXS. I have an old Belgium 12 SxS from the late 1800's that is not smokeless proofed but is reamed out for 2 3/4" shells. There seems to be some commercially available ammunition that is low pressure and light loads for these old guns but it isn't readily available. The gun is in good shape with a tight lock up and 'on face' as far as I can tell. Barrels seem quite good (minimal pitting). I've checked on Hodgdon's website but they don't list a recipe for this application. Remington gun club and Challenger shells available.
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Find or make a {insertable} .22 etc sleeve for them. We made some light loads using cheap target loads, dumping & cutting them down & use black powder..or we used very light load. Lots of instructional videos online or utube about this.
 
One option is to load black powder (Pyrodex) loads. Lots of YouTube videos out there on how to do so.

I have loaded many for my SxS Damascus barreled shogun.
 
A couple here:

http://claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-style/by-style-winchester/53-cb0175-12-load-data

I don't know what pressure is "safe" for your gun, but at least these are proper load recipes. One caveat with low pressure loads is they can be dirty. I shoot a lot of the 3/4oz loads for skeet with this wad and AA hulls. My current powder is titewad with a Fed 209A primer and 17gn (high pressure). Going down to 15gn gives some unburnt powder in the cold for me so I load shells to the higher end for the most part. I'd avoid the 700X for light loads- I find it definitely on the dirtier side. Red Dot or Extra-Lite would be good if you can find it. Promo loads to weight the same as Red Dot so is equivalent if you can find it. Right now with powder it is hard to be too choosy... So will likely be more of a use what you can find scenario.
 
Ashcroft said:
FIRST, have your old Belgian gun checked by a competent gunsmith to determine if it should be fired at all, especially as it has been modified to accept ammunition that it was not made to use. Assuming an age of perhaps 130 years old, consider that metallurgy was not as sophisticated as today and that over 100 years of wear, tear and abuse are also riding on that old girl. IF a gunsmith certifies it as safe to shoot, the advice to use low pressure ammo using Federal cases ( largest internal capacity, keeps pressures down), 700X powder ( performs well at low pressures), AA12SL wads ( fits the case and load, lowers pressures in straight walled cases) and 7/8 ounces of shot which is essentially a standard 20 gauge payload can give you great performing ammunition at minimal pressures. I’ve personally loaded and shot thousands of rounds of my favourite combination of these components in selected guns dating back to 1873 vintage but these guns were in exceptionally fine condition. An even better powder if you can find it is the discontinued IMR SR7625. Your gun, your fingers, your eyes, don’t take chances.
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Agree 100%
 
Thanks for the info. I will be taking it to get inspected by a gunsmith. It would be nice to know what a safe pressure is specifically for these old damascus twist barrels. I could then narrow down the loading data.
 
There are different grades of Damascus steel and your gun would be lowest grade and the fact that the chambers have been altered is not a good thing
 
AchesNpains said:
Thanks for the info. I will be taking it to get inspected by a gunsmith. It would be nice to know what a safe pressure is specifically for these old damascus twist barrels. I could then narrow down the loading data.
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There is no hard and fast “safe” pressure for these old guns. Each gun was proof tested when made and a safe maximum pressure was established at that time but that really has no relevance today. Think. In the last 130 years this gun has likely been used extensively, probably with little or no maintenance for some periods. Those barrels which were black powder proofed to a probable 6000-7000 LUP aren’t any stronger, most likely weaker due to corrosion inside, outside, and between the laminations, pitting, possible reboring to remove pitting, previous use of unsuitable modern smokeless 2 3/4” ammo and of course your oversized chambers. The only way to know the safe pressure limits of those barrels today would be to send them to Europe or England and have them proof tested. This would cost multiple times the most optimistic value of the gun so it really isn’t practical but hey, it’s your gun, fill your boots.
 
For years in Cowboy Shooting I have used 12 ga. Winchester Low Noise , Low Recoil , Target Load.
Called the "Featherlight Load". It's specs. are : Min. Dram Eq. , 26 grams of # 8 shot with 980 ft per sec.
The Code is " AA 12 FL 8 . I latter developed my own equivilate reload with the following ;
AA Target Hulls , 7/8 oz. wad , 13 grains of Red Dot powder. This is a very light load which I use
in smokeless powder proofed shotguns for CAS. These may help you , but of course I can not say if they
will be safe in your gun .
 
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