LR/silhouette/calibre/models/optics

A

arctic_front

New member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Location
former Yukoner, and damn proud of it. Currently i
Hi all. New member and avid wannabe shooter.

I have a background in 3-position rimfire competition (competed in Canada Summer Games, 1977). My current interest is in long range shooting, silhouette or similar shooting sport.

I currently have a Norinco .22 Biathalon/sporter with anchutz peeps. I am interested in the full spectrum of high accuracy shooting and have a decent budget to find a decent rifle and optics. Re-loading is also part of this sport so i'm looking to work into that too. Nothing is out of the question at this point.

My basic question is this:

What calibre, what type of rifle, type and features for optics??


I will also offer this as additional info, I have never used optics before...always target peep sights of the highest quality. My Competition rifle was a model 64 anchutz..... I also have almost zero experience with center-fire.

Here is where I want to lead all responses:

1) calibre for long range out to 1000M
2) Accuracy, above all.
3) decent trigger, fit & finish
4) Recoil (I'm a rimfire guy by history)
5) optics for long range/silhouette
6) reload considerations
7) Value. I have a decent budget, but don't want to get into endless trips to
a smith for tweaks and up-grades. I prefer to buy a match-quality rifle
with all the good bits out of the box. Optics aside, the rifle should be as
as close to match-ready as possible. Bedding is not avoidable, so not
concerned about that.
8) fits within the legal rules for weight and length for multi-discipline
competition.

Ok, that said, lets get down to brass tacks.

who has a Favorite brand or model? I've been reading this forum and see lots love the Savage, Rem or Tikka. I am familiar with Anschutz. I want something that has the savage-type trigger. I like the fact that Rem has the aftermarket, and have no idea about the Tikka. What combination works best for getting out there and touching your target at 1000m?

I can shoot. I'm not a Noob in that regard. I'm looking to have the equipment to play in a center-fire long-range game and compete. I want most of all, the right calibre. I've looked at .22-250, .223, .204, .243, and 6.5mm. They all have great qualities. What is the best choice to play in silhouette and poking holes in paper? Mostly I want to be a player in match-level competition. I also don't want to have 5 rifles to cover all of them. I have no interest in hunting, just shooting.

Optics are a bone of contention..but a 24X seems a minimum so it seems. what reticle? I love the circle-X as it closely mimics the peep-sights I'm used to. Other views are very welcomed. Optics are my weak point

I'm not looking to buy used rifles. I can afford new. This is not a request for a '4-sale' flea market. I'm looking for ideas and combinations that 'work'.
I want match-level accuracy that is achievable without too much fuss. I also know some Smithing is required. Who makes a rifle that is competitive out of the box under $3000? I realize that quality costs money. My budget is not bottomless. However, I will prefer a quality unit over a budget one that needs endless smithing to get it in the game.

I have heard good things about the Savage, as far as price and trigger. Price is not the issue. Accuracy is.


thank you all in advance for taking the time to even read this post as it is so much like everybody else's.

I hope to meet you all on the range someday.
 
A Remington 700 in 260 would be a good place to start. Some modfications further down the road may be wanted when and if you decide to focus on a particular discipline. Aftermarket stuff is readily available for Remingtons.
 
My comments only pertain to silhouette. The rem 700 heavy barrel in 7-08 or 308 have in the past been the norm. Target grade bullets are readily available for those calibers. The rem 700 is a good base to start. You can shoot a factory rifle and upgrade the trigger and stock later. You said something about an annie 64. I had a annie 64MS which I shot small bore silhoutte with. Scopes are a money pit in this game. Leupold, weaver T scopes make target models. 24 power is alot, interesting to see if you can handle that madnification from the start. 10 to 15 power seemed lots for me. Buy the time you buy a new rifle and scope and into reloading 3 grand is close----good luck-----Cowboy
 
Last edited:
I have no experience in Sil shoooting, but I am an avid F-classer.

You have answered many of your own questions, however the rifle you use will weigh heavily upon the type of shooting discipline you prefer. A 22 pound F-class/prone rifle is no good for Sil shooting.

If you want out-of-box convenience AND competitive accuracy, there are few honest choices. The only real options are Savage F and F/TR rifles. I would strongly suggest the 6mmBR cartridge which is accurate to a mile and easy to load for.

No factory Remington is going to be accurate enough to compete at 1000 and I am a huge Remington fan.

The only other factory rifle I have used with superb out-of-box accuracy us the Tikka Tactical with its excellent hammer-forged barrel. They are on the expensive side and I doubt their suitability to compete at 1000, but they come pretty close.

Optics is a huge kettle of fish too. Many good choices, but you get what you pay for. Nightforce BR scopes offer superlative features, clarity and repeatability. Leupold as well. Sightron has a new 8-32X56 scope that promises to be one of the best values in a high-quality scope, but we are waiting for these to hit the shelves.
 
Obtunded said:
I have no experience in Sil shoooting, but I am an avid F-classer.

You have answered many of your own questions, however the rifle you use will weigh heavily upon the type of shooting discipline you prefer. A 22 pound F-class/prone rifle is no good for Sil shooting.

If you want out-of-box convenience AND competitive accuracy, there are few honest choices. The only real options are Savage F and F/TR rifles. I would strongly suggest the 6mmBR cartridge which is accurate to a mile and easy to load for.

No factory Remington is going to be accurate enough to compete at 1000 and I am a huge Remington fan.

The only other factory rifle I have used with superb out-of-box accuracy us the Tikka Tactical with its excellent hammer-forged barrel. They are on the expensive side and I doubt their suitability to compete at 1000, but they come pretty close.

Optics is a huge kettle of fish too. Many good choices, but you get what you pay for. Nightforce BR scopes offer superlative features, clarity and repeatability. Leupold as well. Sightron has a new 8-32X56 scope that promises to be one of the best values in a high-quality scope, but we are waiting for these to hit the shelves.
Click to expand...

x2 for me here. You are headed toward playing at least two different games and it would be hard to find one rifle to do the jobs you want done. It has been awhile since I shot any highpower silhouette, but would suggest a 6.5 mm (260). The 6 mm used to be fairly popular too. If you buy a 6mm you will want a fast twist to stabilize the heaviest bullets you can find. One of the major concerns in highpower is how much recoil and muzzle blast you take over the course of a match. So, if your experience is anything like mine, you will find yourself loading down to the level that allows for accuracy and getting the job done, but no higher. It would be interesting to go to a match in Cranbrook and see what the good guys are shooting now. The Invitational, which just happened, would have been ideal for that. Good luck...fred
 
6mm is minimum for silhouette. With a fast twist barrel shooting 107 smk's you may hit more, but will lose (not knock over) some rams at 500m. 260 and 7mm-08 reign king right now. To shoot both classes with one rifle, you need to keep overall weight under 9 lbs. Some have got pretty creative about doing that. You may want to check out the steelchickens website.

For 1000 m shooting, your getting into some specialized equipment. At the end of it all you'll probably find all you have left of your original purchase is the action.
 
If you plan on competing, then you need to focus on the platform that performs for that discipline.

Since Silh will be the lightest rifle, I would suggest you pick a class of silh and build from there. A Hunter class is vastly different from Silhouette. However, a hunter can be used in both classes.

Keep an eye on the stock and rifle balance. Likely, no factory rifle is going to work so just get an action (or base rifle and sell off the parts) and build what works. 6.5 or 7mm would get my nod with the most likely being the 6.5 as recoil is so much lighter.

I think the 6.5X47L with a 130gr Berger/123gr lapua should get the job done with the least amount of abuse. Any 6.5 based off an improved 22/250 case will also work. You just need 2700fps or so to get out to 500m and knock over the rams. Lowest recoil that gets the job done.

If you are plinking to 1000yds, then any silh rifle will also shoot out that far. If you want to compete in something like F class, then the two rifles are very different.

Here I would suggest the Savage action, two barrels, a rifle basix 2 trigger, and two stocks. Just assemble the parts that suit your needs that weekend.

For optics, I have shot with 24X and that was all I could handle (smallbore). Others have used the 36X with good effect. Bushnell Elite 6X24 is a great scope for the money and the mildots will come in handy for holding off at LR. The Elite 4200 6X24 AO w/mildots is another superb scope and there is enough up for silhouette.

Burris sig Zee rings and a canted base will give you all the UP you need.
Jerry
 
Here's an idea:

The rules for sil. hunter class have been very much relaxed allowing the use of decent weight barrels with specialized ultra light weight stocks made by Robertson composites here in Canada. These stocks are designed for off hand shooting and may not be the most comfortable or practical for shooting prone or off rests. The rules are basically, 9 Lbs overall weight, 2 LB trigger, 26" max barrel that must have some taper, and somewhat resembles a hunting rifle. (yeah right). You can shoot both classes with such.

So, why not get a 2nd stock bedded for the same action. A standard Remington Varmint or Police stock built by HS precision (not the plastic one) would work for F-Class, tactical type matches or just killing stuff.
 
THank you all for your very informative responses. I see now the error in my thinking on trying to have one rifle for two very different types of competition. The single-action, twin stock idea is very clever.

As for the calibre, I have heard mention of the 6mmBR, but can't find too much information on it. Is it a wildcat?

I also suspect that silhouette is probably where I will start because my local range, Whitehorse Rifle & Pistol Club, is properly set up for that.

I thank you all for your advice. I will heed as much of it as I can

AF
 
You stated that you have not shot with a scope,okay,does not take a lot ofgetting used to.Before you buy check the manufactures web sites as most will give all specs. as to adjustment range. IMO you do not need 24 power,on a hot sunny day the mirage can be horrendous andd make it almost impossible to see a clear target at 1000 yds.As for obtundeds comment that Rem. box stock cannot be competetive.I use a .264 sendero that is accurate enough to compete at 1000. I'm just no good (yet) at doping wind.
 
Artic - I shoot a Sako 6mm PPC and it is very accurate, way out there. You may find the detail you seek at: www.6mmbr.com which is a very specialized web site. Watch your back stop !
 
Again, thanks for the input.

I was talking to a guy at the gun store today, he suggested the 6.5X55. I was thinking that if nothing else, ammo would be easier to aquire. Not sure how it compares on ballistics. So much information to absorb. I liked the idea of another choice in the 6mm-6.5mm range.

Shotgun Joe: I was thinking of a scope that was variable up 24X, and obviously adj. parallax. Some have mentioned the Elite 4200. I looked at the 3200 today a bit. But in a store, pretty hard to see much. Also played with a new Savage 116 in 7mm, plastic stock. I can't say I was very impressed in its quality. $620 for what looked like junk. Do they all 'appear' so poorly made?

On a better note, I got the Norinco .22 out for some shooting. I took the GF along and she put some rounds down rage as well. She really liked it. Last year, I took her to the pistol range at West Edmonton Mall and she had a go with a 9mm Baretta and a .357 Python. She was pretty excited after that!

Cheers guys. Much appreciated!
 
As for the calibre, I have heard mention of the 6mmBR, but can't find too much information on it. Is it a wildcat?

No, many other wildcats are built off of it, but is the base cartridge most used
out to 600 yds and often to 1000. Probably the best you can go to really. Check out 6mmbr.com and you will learn all that is needed.
 
The 7 BR (Bench Rest), has successfully been used in silhouette. It is a factory round. Inexpensive Remington brass is available. It is a bit of a lob, but when your shooting at known distances works fine.

Factory rifles are pretty much non existant. You'd want a fast twist to stabilize 175 match kings.
 
bisonhd said:
The 7 BR (Bench Rest), has successfully been used in silhouette. It is a factory round. Inexpensive Remington brass is available. It is a bit of a lob, but when your shooting at known distances works fine.

Factory rifles are pretty much non existant. You'd want a fast twist to stabilize 175 match kings.
Click to expand...

Shot the 7BR for many years and it is a nice round to use for silhouette. The 162 g Amax was a good bullet too. The one quibble I had with it was that I found I had to be careful with outside temperatures (provincials in August at Heffley one year) if I was pushing max. It is the one other thing along with how flat the trajectory is, arguable I will agree, that would push me toward the 6.5X55, 260, 708 etc. They have more powder capacity, shoot flatter and are probably somewhat more stable under hot temperatures. Hogdon powders might help this, of course, but I was using AA and Reloader at the time.
 
Arctic,personally I would not buy the bushnells,inconsistant in quality and adjustments are notconsistant either. The weaver target scopes are very good optically and the adjustments are very close to what they should be,leupold makes very good optics and adjust well but stay away from there side parallax adjustables.Zeiss also adjust consistantly but lack a wide adjustment range.If you check out the 6mm bechrest site they did an independant appraisal of some of the top scopes including prices.
Obtunded what would you consider accurate enough for a barrel in Fclass ?
 
IMO:

Easy to aquire ammo is not much of a concern as long as you can buy good ... no ... GREAT quality cases. You will need to reload.

With a $3000 budget the last thing to think about is if the rifle comes stock with a good trigger. I'm sure you hate shooting a rifle that has a heavy, creepy trigger. Spend $200 and stick on a good one and sell the old one.

Fact: 90% (at least) of scopes wiggle a bit. However, it's normally only noticeable to the short range benchrest crowd. You will not see a variable scope on one of those rifles because they are heavier (and it's better to have the weight in the barrel) and they have more workings to get loose.

From what I think you want to do I would say get a fixed ~ 24 to start.
Move up or down when you get a better idea on where you're going with it.

From what I've read on what you want to do I would get my hands on a savage or remington action, pick the stock shape you want, pick a chambering (no neck turn 6br would fit) Pick a wind bucking bullet for your yardage then use that info to get the right twist barrel.

The 6br guys would say ... what?.. 107gr VLD in about a what 1 in 7 twist 26" long?


If you don't want to look after the "build" yourself find a smith you trust, pay him your $ and get him to do it.
I think that part is more than half the fun though ;)

Ask 10 people ...get 10 different ideal guns

I like short range since there is no range really close to here that's more than 300Y. My 6ppc is good. Real good.

Mike

Edit to add: All the above is remembering that recoil is #4 on your list. It should be on more of our lists, lots of guys would be better shots if it was.

I'd make bigger holes in targets and buck wind better if I shot my 300win mag. But I score better with other choices




arctic_front said:
Again, thanks for the input.

I was talking to a guy at the gun store today, he suggested the 6.5X55. I was thinking that if nothing else, ammo would be easier to aquire. Not sure how it compares on ballistics. So much information to absorb. I liked the idea of another choice in the 6mm-6.5mm range.

Shotgun Joe: I was thinking of a scope that was variable up 24X, and obviously adj. parallax. Some have mentioned the Elite 4200. I looked at the 3200 today a bit. But in a store, pretty hard to see much. Also played with a new Savage 116 in 7mm, plastic stock. I can't say I was very impressed in its quality. $620 for what looked like junk. Do they all 'appear' so poorly made?

On a better note, I got the Norinco .22 out for some shooting. I took the GF along and she put some rounds down rage as well. She really liked it. Last year, I took her to the pistol range at West Edmonton Mall and she had a go with a 9mm Baretta and a .357 Python. She was pretty excited after that!

Cheers guys. Much appreciated!
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom