Lubricating Dies

bushwhacker

bushwhacker

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Was having trouble with cartridges sticking in sizing dies. Tried two different 30-06 dies, RCBS and Bonanza. Same result. Even was happening with RCBS 9mm dies which are supposed to be carbide and not need lubrication. Was using Lee paste lubricant, still had trouble. Had to really watch amount of lubrication. Too much = wrinkles in shoulder of rifle cases. Too little = stuck cases. Tried a bottle of Bonanza case lubricating oil. Seems to solve the problem on both rifle and pistol cases. Is my 9mm sizing die worn out? Tried cleaning thorougly. If run dry, leaves a "shoulder" at bottom of die travel on case. Sometimes enough to prevent chambering.

Getting tired of slow pace of reloading. What kind of progressive press are you guys happy with for both rifle and pistol?
Bill
 
I use the RCBS "spray" lube. Making sure the necks are all facing down. With reference to the sticking, does the sticking occur near the start of the resizing cycle (downward) or near the end (upward motion of the arm)? Does the sticking occur when the casing is nearing the top of the die? Not meaning to offend, but are you new to reloading? The "sticking" could be very normal, but not so much to a new reloader.

Do you give the casings a pre-cleaning or a good wipe before commencement of the process? I reload revolver and ACP casings about 200 at a sit down and do not have a progressive press. No lubrication has ever been required, but I do clean the cases first. It keeps the dies clean too.

Did you buy your dies new or used?
 
Resizing dies have a preservative coating put on them at the factory and sometimes it can be very hard to get off. Clean your dies with a strong solvent like acetone, some of the newer preservative coatings put on the dies are not oil base.

Many of the new case lubes are water base and do not work as well as oil base and lanolin case lubes. I had the same problem you are having with new dies standard and carbide until I re-cleaned them and found better case lubes.

Try this experiment, rub a film of engine oil on a case by hand, if the resizing force lessons you resizing lube is at fault, if the force stays the same your dies are at fault. NOTE: Engine oil has a high shear strength and some reloaders are even using STP oil treatment as a case lube.

I have been reloading for over 46 years and never had problems with the old lubes and dies. I think the manufactures are making their products as cheap as possible. If you read the instructions with your carbide dies it even tells you that you may have to lube the cases. The new dies will get better with time and use because you are doing the factory polishing for them.
 
I use RCBS lube sparingly, just a light roll acroos a lube pad on the case body don't worry about lube on the neck and shoulder. I also run a neck brush dipped in graphite into the mouth of the case. My old lee carbide sizer in 357 works well for a lee product, no lube. Even with a progressive press you still need to prep cases, that is what i'll be doing with 223 cases once i get set up, everything else i use a single stage press. I will run a large batch through ie deprime and size, clean primer pockets and wipe off lube then inspect and prime, gives me a batch of cases ready to load with powder and bullet, another day or month later.
 
Lee Lube is easy to apply as a thin coat on lots of brass in a few seconds. Put the brass in a round plastic pail (2 litre ice cream pail), smear some lube around the inside of the pail (about a 1" worm of lube), put the lid on the pail and swirl for about 30 seconds.

All the brass will have a thin coating, with just enough on the case mouth to lube the expander button, too.

lubebrass1.jpg


lubebrass.jpg


Every once in awhile ( years) I need to take the die and scrub it with a brush and solvent to take crap out of it. Sounds like a new one might need this treatment before you start. I use a can of spray brake cleaner as a general purpose metal cleaner.
 
bigedp51 said:
I have been reloading for over 46 years and never had problems with the old lubes and dies. I think the manufactures are making their products as cheap as possible. If you read the instructions with your carbide dies it even tells you that you may have to lube the cases. The new dies will get better with time and use because you are doing the factory polishing for them.
Click to expand...

Regarding water based lubricants, it is not that manufacturers are trying to make things cheaper. Water based lubes will be more expensive. It is government regulations designed to "protect" us. All products now have to minimize the amount of volitile hydrocarbons (especially in California), to the extent that even oil based paints are slowly coming off the market.

Also carbide dies have never specifically been designed to be used without lubricant, it's just they can be used without lube. Everything works better with a little lube.

As for presses, how much do you want to spend? Are you good at tinkering, or price be dammed, want it to work every time without fuss.

Read links in the first post of this thread http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/127691-dillon-lee-hornady-progressive-comparison
 
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I have been using Imperial Sizing wax for about 3 decades now.
There has been exactly ZERO issues when using this product.
You need so little, and minimum effort is needed to size even a "bulged" case.
Maybe not quite as quick to use as spray-on types, but, IMHO, the very best.
Regards, Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
I have been using Imperial Sizing wax for about 3 decades now.
There has been exactly ZERO issues when using this product.
You need so little, and minimum effort is needed to size even a "bulged" case.
Maybe not quite as quick to use as spray-on types, but, IMHO, the very best.
Regards, Dave.
Click to expand...
Same here. Been using it just as long and with the same results. I would not even consider using any thing else.
 
I use rcbs lube. A little on my fingers and roll the case between them before I size. Reapply after 3 cases or so.

RCBS recommends to NOT use imperial sizing wax and says it the main cause of stuck cases with their dies.

... Mind you they could just be trying to sell more of their own lube....
 
"...a "shoulder" at bottom..." Indicates the die isn't set up properly. The shell holder should just kiss the die with the ram all the way up.
"...engine oil..." Too thick. Regular case lube is all that's needed. Been using RCBS with a pad for eons, but there are other methods.
 
I have been using Lee case lube for several years. I like it because unlike a lot of the oil based lubes it is very easy to remove. I have never had problems resizing .223, .308, 30-06, 303 Brit, etc. After I size the cases I just swish them around in some lacquer thinner which dissolves the lube and evaporates quickly, leaving the cases clean, shiny and lube free.

I might be a little anal about cleaning but I also tumble all my brass prior to resizing to remove all contaminants like carbon, dirt, lube residue, etc. it makes resizing go easier as well. This is also good for pistol reloading. Nice clean cases run far smoother through carbide dies, even without any lube.
 
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Thanks for the advice. With the Bonanza case sizing lubricant applied on a pad, the pressure required to size is greatly reduced. I think I will stick with it as no problems with stuck cases. When I used the Lee lubricant, I had to be really careful to only lube every few cases or would end up with wrinkles on the shoulder. I also used to apply a little with a Q-Tip to inside of case mouth to prevent pulling the inside sizing button and shaft out of the collet in the die. The die is set up propely with the die just touching the shell-holder at top of the press stroke.
The "shoulder" I talked about is at the point where the die stops sizing the case near the shell-holder. sometimes all the way around, sometmes more on one side. This is only on the 9mm die without Bonanza lube. The dies are not new. I bought them used and I have tried cleaning with no apprecialbe results.
Bill
 
sunray said:
"...engine oil..." Too thick. Regular case lube is all that's needed.
Click to expand...

sunray, try and not move your lips when you read, I said as an "experament" try some engine oil because of it lubricating qualities and see if the resizing effort was reduced. This means as a base line for "real" resizing lubes and what gave the same results as engine oil. Now sunray does a engine crankshaft drag and bind on its bearings or does it float on a film of oil?
 
I pour a small quantity of hydraulic (or tractor differential/hydraulic fluid) oil in my RCBS case lubricating pad's container and place the pad on top of it. Been using that for years and never lost a case. Dump a quantity of brass on the pad, lightly roll and no wrinkles or stuck casings.

Regarding your getting a 9mm stuck in RCBS carbide dies: I've done that once for the same reason - Regardless of anyone's claims to the contrary, I now lubricate even the tiny 9mm brass that you expect could never get stuck. Previously I would lubricate every fifth case, but with lube, the resistance in resizing is so little. Your dies are not worn out, nor are mine that have been used maybe 3000-4000 times.

Note - I usually put brass through an ultrasonic cleaner after resizing, not that the lube would get in the case and ruin powder, but I like the reassurance knowing oily fingers are never going to be an issue with primers, and I have a small case of OCD. If I do not intend on cleaning cases,(rifle brass) I use dry graphite lube for the case neck before resizing, otherwise the neck is poked into the lube pad for a film of oil to make the neck ball slide nicely.
 
Since I got a tumbler a few years ago, I clean my brass before sizing. It makes things go so much easier.

I, too, put a little bit of lube in a bucket of 9mm brass, even though I use a carbide die. It sizes easier.
 
Eagleye said:
I have been using Imperial Sizing wax for about 3 decades now.
There has been exactly ZERO issues when using this product.
You need so little, and minimum effort is needed to size even a "bulged" case.
Maybe not quite as quick to use as spray-on types, but, IMHO, the very best.
Regards, Dave.
Click to expand...

I've got the Hornady brand hopefully it's as effective..
 
Try some Lanolin oil mix with 99% alchohol on a spray bottle, Dillon use these components for their lube, shake your formula and spray your brass in a cookie pan , let the alchohol evaporate and your ready to go.
 
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