What's that supposed to mean? A three shot group might be adequite for sighting in a rifle, but statistically doesn't do much to prove that one load shoots better than another.
lucky,great shot,or B.S.?
- Thread starter stubblejumper
- Start date
What's that supposed to mean? A three shot group might be adequite for sighting in a rifle, but statistically doesn't do much to prove that one load shoots better than another.
I shoot several three shot groups with each load, to judge loads for my big game hunting rifles.I shoot three shot groups with these rifles to keep from overheating the barrels,and because I will never likely have to fire more than three shots while hunting bug game.With my heavy barreled varmint rifles,I shoot five shot groups.
troutseeker
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Prince George, BC
C'mon you doubting Thomas's. Shooting like this is a regular occurence on the web. I myself am no slouch and can shot awesome groups from my keybaord. Especially when assisted by Scotch...
Before the web I was a crappy shot, like so many others.
Troutseeker
Before the web I was a crappy shot, like so many others.
Troutseeker
I used to get into a sweat at one time because it seemed almost everyone had a rifle except me that would easily do 1 moa. I won more than my fair share of matches but never seemed to own a rifle that would break the 1 MOA consistantly. Then it occured to me that I had not seen any 1 MOA groups on the range by these same shooters. Wrong load, hung over, too much coffee whatever. There was always some reason. Now when someone tells me they have a sporter that will do 1/2 MOA all day every day I reply the same as I do when I see someone's photo of their ugly grand kids - That's very nice - you're so lucky
I believe there are Sub MOA rifles out there and some are even sporters but they're very uncommon and many times this is only achieved through a combination of good gun smithing and very close attention to building quality ammo. I've owned many bolt action rifles over the years and can only say I've owned only one that would do 1 MOA consistantly and some days would do slightly better. I still have it. I'm just sorry I got it so late in my shooting career.
I believe there are Sub MOA rifles out there and some are even sporters but they're very uncommon and many times this is only achieved through a combination of good gun smithing and very close attention to building quality ammo. I've owned many bolt action rifles over the years and can only say I've owned only one that would do 1 MOA consistantly and some days would do slightly better. I still have it. I'm just sorry I got it so late in my shooting career.
Three shot group for my hunting rifles and 5 shot for anthing with a heavy barrel. To be even more realistic with a hunting rifle a 2 shot group would be fine too. I've been hunting big game for 26 years now. I can't remember ever getting or needing more than 2 shots at an animal. If you miss twice the third might just be a waste of time by then.
Most of my newer model rifles with good optics will shoot 1 MOA or less with good quality factory ammo and no tuning. Maybe I've gotten lucky with my purchases, but I wouldn't doubt they would shoot better with some work, reloads and a better skilled marksman.
Either way, I'd still say 1/4 MOA is BS.
Either way, I'd still say 1/4 MOA is BS.
You can go one step farther and use a one shot group, better known as a cold barrel shot. Some rifles will always put that first shot right on the money and some won't. For a pure hunting rifle a group composed of all cold shots may be the most telling. On heavy barrel varmint guns used on gophers I'm much more concerned about how well it shoots when it's hot. A varmint gun that won't shoot hot isn't good for much, a hunting rifle that won't shoot cold isn't either.
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- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Minimum of five shot groups for most comptetions I shoot , some are ten.
NONE are three shot groups.
My hunting rifles get three shot groups, but several during one range session,
I sometimes fire as many as 50 rounds in one range day from a given hunting rifle.
Not to test the accuracy of the rifle , but My accuracy!!
Cat
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And you have never had to fire a second shot while big game hunting?If I fire a three shot group starting from a cold barrel,I know what the gun will do if I ever need to fire a second or third shot.If your group is made up of entirely cold shots,you have no idea what will happen if you do need to fire a second or third shot.
Jeez, quit twisting things already. I was just pointing out the extremes of usage. If your first shot is always at the bottom, top or outside of your 3 shot group you may as well know about and deal with it.
Multiple 3 shot groups are good, if they are exactly to the same point of impact and every last shot is included no matter how "inconvenient". It's laughable when a shooter shows a couple of 3 shot 1/2" bragging groups that wouldn't even touch each other if the targets were stacked. Somewhat easier than making an allowance for the group placement is to shoot multiple groups at the same target. You could do that all cold, sets of 2, groups of three or whatever you value. It also eliminates fliers that aren't really fliers, bad pulls that really weren't, and a whole pile of 1/2" rifles that aren't. It will also put a serious cramp into a lot of egos.
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Yeah I kind of find it hard to believe a guy has 3 factory Weatherby rifles that will ALL shoot 1/4 MOA. I also get kick from people that say after they see my 1/2 MOA or smaller 5 shot groups from my Sako 6mm PPC " yeah my factory 300 Win Mag will do that off a sandbag too"
. I also have a custom 7mm Rem Mag in Rem 700 action with a Pac-nor match barrel, Jewel trigger,and McMillan stock and I have a hard time getting better than 3/4 MOA with handloads. MY factory Sako 6 mm PPC heavy barrel single shot would average and honest 1/2 MOA with the Sako factory ammo which is no longer available and will do a little better with handloads. Some people tend to crank the BS meter a little high. Just like the guy at work that asks me what my truck gets for mileage and THEN tells me his Chevy Silverado 4x4 gets 28 MPG in the city AND on the highway, winter, summer, whether in 2WD or 4WD 28 MPG ALL THE TIMEYeah right buddy,wanna buy some swamp land.
Weatherby rifles that will ALL shoot 1/4 MOA. I also get kick from people that say after they see my 1/2 MOA or smaller 5 shot groups from my Sako 6mm PPC " yeah my factory 300 Win Mag will do that off a sandbag too". I also have a custom 7mm Rem Mag in Rem 700 action with a Pac-nor match barrel, Jewel trigger,and McMillan stock and I have a hard time getting better than 3/4 MOA with handloads. MY factory Sako 6 mm PPC heavy barrel single shot would average and honest 1/2 MOA with the Sako factory ammo which is no longer available and will do a little better with handloads. Some people tend to crank the BS meter a little high. Just like the guy at work that asks me what my truck gets for mileage and THEN tells me his Chevy Silverado 4x4 gets 28 MPG in the city AND on the highway, winter, summer, whether in 2WD or 4WD 28 MPG ALL THE TIMEYeah right buddy,wanna buy some swamp land.
real men don't need to brag
What difference does it make? Not worth getting worked up about some delusional dork who uses the internet for an ego boost because he hasn't got a real life. Anybody who really DID have factory rifles that shot like that wouldn't say so on a public forum because he'd know that nobody would believe him. Of course he's exaggerating but WGAF??
Although it is a time-proven fact that weatherby rifles are the best, and the men who own them are manly men cut from sterner cloth than mere mortals.
Seriously, if you keep trying to talk sense with nonsensical persons you're gonna blow a head gasket eventually. Stop feeding their need for attention. Ignore them and they go away.
What difference does it make? Not worth getting worked up about some delusional dork who uses the internet for an ego boost because he hasn't got a real life. Anybody who really DID have factory rifles that shot like that wouldn't say so on a public forum because he'd know that nobody would believe him. Of course he's exaggerating but WGAF??
Although it is a time-proven fact that weatherby rifles are the best, and the men who own them are manly men cut from sterner cloth than mere mortals.
Seriously, if you keep trying to talk sense with nonsensical persons you're gonna blow a head gasket eventually. Stop feeding their need for attention. Ignore them and they go away.
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beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
At the range, the easiest way to separate the Bear S#@t from the Buckwheat is to put $ 100 bucks on the bench ... $ 100 to you IF you can
do it .... but $ 50 to me ( of your money) if you can't ! You woul;dn't believe the speed at which a BS artist can back down.
Have a card in my wallet just for such occasions:
Here's My Card
I am somewhat of a bull####ter myself, but
occassionally I like to listen to a professional !!!
PLEASE CARRY ON !
do it .... but $ 50 to me ( of your money) if you can't ! You woul;dn't believe the speed at which a BS artist can back down.
Have a card in my wallet just for such occasions:
Here's My Card
I am somewhat of a bull####ter myself, but
occassionally I like to listen to a professional !!!
PLEASE CARRY ON !
TheSentinel
Member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
This seems like a good place to ask a question I've been wondering about for a while. To start off, I'm a decent shot, but I certainly wouldn't say a good shot. I can hit 2" 4 shot groups at 100 yards consistenly with my M-70 if I warm up with a .22 first. Sometimes better, rarely worse. This is all seated with a carpeted block of wood as a front rest.
On one particularly good day, I hit three .90"-1.25" groups in a row with my stock M-70 in .308 in a row with apparently good milsurp and followed that up with a .75" three shot group with a friend's T3 with factory ammo.
So what does this mean? Is the M-70 good for 1 MOA and it took a good day of shooting to hit it consistently? Not enough information to form any opinion? Was it probably a fluke and doesn't mean anything?
On one particularly good day, I hit three .90"-1.25" groups in a row with my stock M-70 in .308 in a row with apparently good milsurp and followed that up with a .75" three shot group with a friend's T3 with factory ammo.
So what does this mean? Is the M-70 good for 1 MOA and it took a good day of shooting to hit it consistently? Not enough information to form any opinion? Was it probably a fluke and doesn't mean anything?
