Luger from WW1 with mags holster lanyard and story of how it got to Canada.

ddorgan

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Hi. I have aquired a Luger pistol that came to Canada with a cavalry man from Manitoba after he was on cleanup duty after WW1. This gun is in very nice condition, has two matching mags. a holster and lanyard, and there are other goodies with it that don't match. One is a snail drum mag. There is also a mag. that the # doesn't match. I am looking to have these appraised and may sell them. If someone knows who to contact or are quallified to appraise these please PM me. I'll post some pictures soon so everyone can have a look. They are very nice!!
Thanks. Dean
 
There are lots of luger experts on gun boards and they should be able to help you with pictures. Unfortunately although the pistol sounds great the Canadian prices are depressed because the guns are 12(6). You may find the snail drum is worth more.
 
Last snail drum mag I saw had the price-tag in 4 figures. They are NOT common.

This sounds like a museum-grade collection with provenance. MOST unusual at this remove in time.

The gun itself can be removed from 12.6 classification by installing a 106mm barrel.

"Gun Control" has nothing to do with public safety; it has strictly to do with the Government's irrational desire to push people around. It CAN'T or WON'T push the Criminals around (they are a growth industry for the Lawyers, Courts and Jails), so it pushes round the people who they can do it to in relative safety: the non-violent majority of the people. If, in the process, our history is trashed, well, so what? You want history, go read a politically-approvd book and you might see a picture with the correct cutline. If Harper wants my vote (again) he will dump the whole stinking 12.x category, go back the way it was. There is FAR too much potential for abuse in the system as it exists today.

YOU are a Very Lucky Guy. THIS is a very "iffy" issue. If you lived in Russia it would be easier to get the right permits. If you lived in Luxemburg, I don't think you would even need a permit.
 
This gun did not come with this magazine. The gun is a short barrel. There is an extra mag and the snail drum that do not match the gun. Nice to have though. Pics. tomorrow I hope.
 
Could you donate it to a museum and right it off on your income tax. Then lots of people can enjoy viewing it, instead of selling it to someone that will lock it up tight in his basement gun safe.
 
Why is everyone assuming right off the bat that it is unregistered? Let the facts speak.

Also ddorgan, do NOT let anyone tell you the snail drum is a prohibited device. It is very specifically exempt from the magazine regulations and does NOT need to be pinned!
 
Why is everyone assuming right off the bat that it is unregistered? Let the facts speak.

Also ddorgan, do NOT let anyone tell you the snail drum is a prohibited device. It is very specifically exempt from the magazine regulations and does NOT need to be pinned!

We need a snail drum for the SKS. A guy would make a killing with that setup.
 
@ Nelson84:

We are not all uncaring and discourteous fools, you know. We had a couple of shoots here this past Summer. At one, I took along 15 historic rifles and an almost-new 1916 Luger..... and let anyone shoot them who wanted to try. Those included a Trials Mark III Ross with Royal Navy and Chilean Service, 1908 Mauser s/n 25, 1917 Carcano sniper, nice new 1953 Garand and a few others. Only ones I took which were NOT for shooting were the Armaguerra 39 and a Bess conversion which has been authenticated as owned and used by the last Pirate in Canada. THOSE two are priceless, so I take no chances..... but they are here to be examined freely.

If you were a real collector yourself (which, from your posts, I doubt) you would know that half the fun of this hobby is showing them off to other people. A lot of guys have not been in this as long as guys like Buffdog and myself, so they have not had the opportunity to handle and shoot some of the things which we have handled and shot, over the years. So, if we own them, we show them off.

It's half the fun.

One shoot in particular I remember well. It was in Newfoundland and I was at the range with my shooting buddy, a World War One veteran. There was a 48-year gap between our ages, but that did not prevent us becoming friends. This day I took along a 1907 Lee-Enfield and let Jack shoot it. He proceeded to put his first 3 rounds on a QUARTER at 125 yards! He shot my buns off..... and did it with MY rifle! (He hadn't told me before that that he HAD been a Sniper in the Newfoundland Army.) Next time he brought along the rifle he swiped from the Army in 1919..... and I had a go with that one. Just a couple of gun nuts showing off our toys.

Our friend DDORGAN has himself a very real Prize, something which most museums should have but would not appreciate.

I am sure that most of us are looking forward to some very nice photos.
 
Could you donate it to a museum and right it off on your income tax. Then lots of people can enjoy viewing it, instead of selling it to someone that will lock it up tight in his basement gun safe.

After you have been involved in a few of these "Museum" ideas where you can "write it off your Income Tax" you will soon find out that the idea does have some merit, BUT also does have it's downside.

The first is Financial. Let us say that the Luger and accessories in question is worth $10,000. You then declare a deduction of $10,000 off your Income Tax, but let us say your Income Tax Bracket is in the 40% range. This means that you have an ACTUAL amount worth $4,000 rather than $10,000 and if someone is willing to pay you $10,000 you will be losing $6,000 on the deal. Also, many of us have a small pension income, so really pay little or no Income Tax. Therefore, we would be having a loss of $10,000. There are also people who bought firearms to enjoy in their younger life, but also as an investment for a bit of income in their retired life, so a donation, while admirable, would downgrade their retired lifestyle. Compare this to investing in Canada Savings Bonds, then giving them away.

Another thing is dealing with SOME Museums. Many of us have had this experience, and have stated "never again." I am not going to relate some of my own experiences and those of other people I know and respect, who have had dealings with SOME Museums that have either ended up as a Gong Show, or like a Horror Movie that has gone out of control.

And there are a lot of the guys out there that do help out the Museums and other organizations. They volunteer their time, money, work and actual firearms and other items to help these Museums and such. They do so quietly, and do not blow their own horn like we have seen here when someone has donated a few cartridges or other small items to a Museum and loudly proclaimed it in this and other Forums.

I think I will let one small cat out of the bag here. About six months ago, SMELLIE and I concluded a project that we took on for ourselves. I initiated it, SMELLIE became a willing partner in it, and a grand un-named gentleman in Southern California was involved. We have mentioned the story to only a few of the GunNutz we know, but not put it out on the Forums. Maybe some day we will, but then again, maybe we will not.

It took us over three years of time, countless hours of research and computer time, lots of coffee drunk over discussions between Smellie and myself, and some of our own money, time and travel. There is one more person who should be thanked, Travis who owns Jo-Brook Firearms in Brandon, Manitoba. He helped us with information, and he imported the very special 1905 Ross Military Mark II Rifle at his own expense.



Buffdog, Travis of Jo-Brook Firearms in Brandon, Mb., and Smellie with the Fort Garry Horse 1905 Ross.


This rifle ended up in the Museum of the Fort Garry Horse Regiment, in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and it did not cost them any money. A priceless exhibit for them, because while it was used by several other Units, the last owner of the rifle before it was sold off for surplus, and the marking NOT cancelled, was The Fort Garry Horse.

It is a good story, and someday SMELLIE or I just might tell it or write it up, but for now only a few people whom we have told, who are interested in military firearms, and whom we know and trust know the story. I think the OP and his Gun Show - activities friend know the story too.

The OP of this thread, by the way, is one of those people who attended the get together and shoot at Virden last July, so he is well aware of any Museum or donation possibilities. His close friend, another Collector and shooter who also attended is well aware of these things too.
 
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Buffdog has nailed it. I have handled the Luger, but ddorgan snatched it away from me as he knows once I get my grubby little paws on something, it tends to end up in my pile.

Sadly, some of these treasures have ended up being destroyed or mutilated to satisfy stupid government regulation and/or stupid people. Our local museum ended up with our town constable's old revolver. I disabled it, but was careful to not mutilate it. I don't see it in the museum any more, as it was likely deemed too prone to theft. There was also a nice artillery Luger there.

I have a matching Luger that a local WWII vet took from a German officer in a POW camp. The vet was a POW, and when it was obvious the Americans would be arriving soon, the vet told the German that he wanted his pistol. When the Americans came over the hill, the officer undid his belt and handed the setup over. When the vet got really old and sick, he gave the rig to his brother who would bring it to our shooting range and let us shoot it. The brother then gave to to his son, and I was able to buy it. I can guarantee you that this Luger won't be going to any museum while I am still able to count my marbles.
 
If the pistol is in original condition and in nice shape with matching parts it will command a good price, even among the diminishing numbers of people with a 12(6) endorsement. If it shows unit/regimental markings on the front of the pistol grip, as many WW1 vintage Lugers do, this will enhance it's appeal even more. I wouldn't be in a rush to swap out the barrel or to donate it to a museum. If you can provide more details on markings, and maybe some pics, there are a few folks on this forum who can help you out. The Luger is a precision made piece with huge collector appeal. As a bonus they are fun to shoot with the right ammo.
 
If I may toot my horn a little bit I volunteer with the 26th field regt. RCA/ XII MB Dragoons Museum and as the OP knows I'm just happy to do the research into the Manitoba Cavalryman that acquired the luger as the stories from the past, as I feel they need to be told as if they are not told then they will be forgotten and the past along with these stories.

that is just my 5 cents
 
How about an AR snail drum! Huh huh huh?

The more I see you comment on these forums the more I am convinced you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Talking about setting SVT-40 gas settings to 1.45, snail mags for guns that wouldn't make a difference (as they would still have to be pinned to five only certain magazines such as a original luger snail mags are exempt), saying things out of your A$$ such as the M1 Garand holds 10rds. Please stop commenting just to have yourself heard. If you actually have something to say which makes a difference and you actually know about say it. Otherwise please sit on the side lines. You keep derailing threads with stupid/inane comments that have virtually no relevance to the topic at hand.

To the OP congrats on such a rare find I know I am certainly jealous.
 
Damn nazis!

Actually he sounds like he was acting quite sensibly in the circumstances. Most German troops in WW2 actually were not dyed-in-the-wool Nazis. They were caught up in the Nazi regime and had few options but to do their bidding. I've known a number who served in the Army, Luftwaffe and the submarine service, did their duty and lived through it, and expressed many of the same emotions that you hear from our own veterans. Funnily enough, I even served with a few fellows in the Cdn Army who had been members of the Hitler Youth when they were kids. Again, not too many choices. Not much glory in war and a lot of sorrow and pain, no matter what uniform you wear.
 
When I was just out of high-school I worked for a fellow who was with the Hitler-Jugend during the war. His reason for joining a Nazi Party organistion? Very simple: he needed CLOTHES.

Clothing, during the War, was very tightly rationed and, once you had reached your limit, your ration-card was OUT and God and the Party only knew when and IF you would get another. But there was a SPECIAL RATION for clothing for Party uniforms..... and the HJ was a Party group. So he joined the HJ, got his Uniform card and got his uniforms, which were price-controlled as well. He then wore the HJ uniform as much as he could get away with: a regular goose-stepping little Nazi, you might think.

His SECRET was that he ALSO had decent clothes to go to Church on Sunday.

I knew another fellow who joined the National-Sozialistisch Kraft-durch-Freude Verein because he wanted to buy a car. The Volkswagen, in case you didn't know, was a Party project which was ramrodded and financed by weekly KdF contributions. A few people actually got their cars before the War swallowed them all. My friend did not get his car, BTW. His serial number likely ended up on the Russian Front. So did he, a year later.

There was much more to National-Socialism than goose-stepping, sieg-heiling and massive parades. Some of it was very good.

The good, however, largely has been lost sight of due to the evil, most of which, BTW, was under the direct personal control of the chicken-farmer, SS Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler who (very wisely) suicided shortly after he was captured in 1945.

BTW, Frederick the Great introduced the goose-step into the Prussian Army because he admired the snappy parade-ground drill of his grandfather's troops. So much for the "Nazi" goose-step. The Tsar of Russia borrowed it from Frederick and the Russians still use it. Oh, almost forgot to mention, Frederick's grandfather was the King of England, George I. My old friend Gun Sergeant Angus Kellie (51st Highland Division Siege Train) learned the goose-step in 1914.
 
The one guy I served with who had been in the Hitler Youth was fallen out for a last ditch stand somewhere against the US Army in the closing days of the war. He was 14 yrs old at the time. They had been given rudimentary weapons training, some drill and an assortment of rifles and kit and were sent out under the control of a German Army unit. Before things actually started one of the Army NCOs simply told them to take off and go home. By reason of some basic humanity and good sense, he got lucky. Things were getting pretty desperate at the end with summary executions of deserters and shirkers being performed by flying squads of SS and the like.

The Germans were really scraping the bottom of the barrel by the end, to the point where anybody with 2 eyeballs and as a$$hole, working or not, was impressed into some form of military or labour service; old men, amputees, young boys, and even female assistants on anti-aircraft guns. We were having manpower problems as well with a shortage of volunteer troops for overseas reinforcements/replacements. This precipitated the great political crisis over conscript troops, who had only been obliged to serve in Canada, being sent overseas. My father used to talk about one of the conscripts who was feeble minded, or at least playing at it to try for a discharge, something like the 'Cpl Klinger' figure on MASH. This guy had a string around his neck and would only go where somebody led him. I don't know if that applied when he went to the latrine or to the messhall though.:rolleyes:
 
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