LWRC Future Weapons Video link

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48th Highlander Texas

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Below is a link to the Future Weapons Episode on the LWRC PSD. It features LCOL Darrel "Moe" Elmore, Retired DCO of 5th Special Forces group. The reason Moe is important to the 6.8mm SPC story is that he likely witnessed the first shooting of an enemy combatant in Vietnam as one of the earliest Special Forces advisors in that war. He has had ####loads of experience since in ever #### bag country in the world. Moe is a very active member of the Special Forces Association. He is a great guy and still assists the troops any way he can.

It also features Paul Howe of CSAT (Combat Shooting and Tactics). If you don't know who Paul is....the character "Hoot" in the movie Blackhawk Down is based on Paul and his actions in that incident. He is likely one of the country's best trainers. What a great guy. He gives you the feeling he could kill you with a pencil eraser if he wanted to.

I will post part 2 in another reply.




Click here for LWRC PSD Future Weapons Episode part 1
 
Like who....

An Mp5 sized weapon that has more energy at 100m than a 14.5" M4 at the muzzle? Who wouldn't like that?

Fight among yourselves! :50cal:

Anyone know that Arms East is going to be importing 6.8 SPC and guns and uppers to boot? The DSP5's are in at the Department of State as we speak.

How can you argue with this?

A post from our forum by one of the other VP's at LWRC. By the way, we don't make any extra money on 6.8 SPC guns, we make less. We do this because we are armed with the data!

Well as some of you know, I go elk hunting every year with some of my buds from the FAL Files & this year I took a 6.8.

We hunt for cow elk as the tag prices are cheaper than bulls & you can't eat horns..... :D :D

Given the experience gained from the last 3 hunting seasons, I stalked up to a place where I thought there might be elk & I was rewarded with a clean kill on a 550lb cow elk at 45yds. First shot broke her spine & when she dropped, she raised her neck up & I took the opportunity to place a second, insurance shot through the neck to make sure she was dead right there & spare any suffering. No way I would have been able to follow up as quickly with a bolt gun as the interval between shots was less than a couple seconds.

Endless practice in 3 gun competitions led me to be completely comfortable with everything about my LWRC piston gun from the trigger to the scope. Art from Silver State Armory kindly overnighted me some 110gr Barnes Triple Shock ammo for use on the hunt & it performed most excellently. :D

So to the pics:

First two give some scale to the size of the beast bearing in mind that my 6.8 has a 17" barrel & a full length ACE stock:



elk003.JPG


elk004.JPG


A pic of the happy hunter with the tools of the trade:

elk002.JPG


Now we had to get his beast off the 8,500 ft mountain I shot her on!! So after I & 3 buds dragged her 150 yds to the side of the hill, we got her ready for a roll downward to the base of the mountain:

elk005.JPG


Looking down the way she is going to go:

elk006.JPG


At the processors, she was shown to be bigger than we thought as my best friend in the whole world is over 6 feet tall & she dwarfs him!

elk001.JPG


Now for the graphic images, 6.8 makes a mess boys & girls! This is the entry & exit wounds near the spine with the exit being the larger of the two on the left of the pic with 6.8 round shown for size comparison:

elk009.JPG


Follow up neck shot shown & notice the extensive shock trauma:

elk011.JPG


Neck in close up with cross sectional profile:

elk010.JPG


Spine shot showing massive trauma to surrounding area:

elk009.JPG


Exit wound in spine with 6.8 round for comparison:

elk012.JPG


Ditto but entry wound in neck:

elk011.JPG


All in all, I am VERY satisfied with my choice in caliber, weapon system & type of ammunition for this particular application. Is the 6.8 a killing round for elk? Yes, within it's limits of no greater than 150 to 200 yds. Deer could be shot at greater distances I think but a 550lb elk is a big, tough animal. Humans would be DOA within 600yds in my opinion, even with OTM ammo.

Art at SSA is THE man! :D :D Ammo performed perfectly, was one hole accurate @100yds & did the deed on this amimal. The aim of every hunter should be a quick, decisive kill with as little suffering as possible. The combination of the SSA ammo & our LWRC piston AR gave me the chance to do just that.

If I had the chance, this combination or a variant thereof is what I would want to carry into harm's way.

Try to replicate the results with a 5.56 if you dare....... :twisted:
 
So 5.56 fragments when going through glass but doesn't when it hits a human? Strange......

Our boys don't get to use hollow points/ hunting tips either, so all the extra kinetic energy means nothing if it doesn't transfer.

I am no expert though.

just my 2 cents
 
well i think the main thing is to get the stuff here, the whole platform that is, anything based in 223 or 308 (5.56 or 7.62) will have an advantage as to the rounds available, but damn if this thing shows up and there is a good supply of ammo coming, then it will be a nice pick

the thing is, get this thing in... IMHO, even if this thing uses a different round and performs well, it is competing with the tavor, the xcr, the SABR, and the existing AR-180b and PE-90 and more if you count the restricted stuff in (assuming that this thing will be classified as non-restricted with its different design and length, etc), and i think of the new arrivals, whomever gets here first, gets the market, and to compete with the existing stuff is where the performance and reliability issues are more important
 
I live in a province where I cannot shoot any antlered beast with 5.56 so not much of a way for me to repeat what you have done, but I doubt people in war zones get issued hollow point hunting ammunition...

But other then that we can't hunt with AR's in Canada, or at least get caught trying to do so, so its sort of a mute point for us.
 
5.56mm 55gr flying at 3270fps carries 1306 ft/lbs or 1770 Joules

7.62mm 123gr flying at 2307fps carries 1453 ft/lbs or 1970 Joules

Now how the fukc is that half the kinetic energy...the M43 projectile tends to over penetrate and thusly will go through body armour...but wont do any serious fragmentation damage on the body tissue, and will then continue to fly out of the body carrying a great deal of energy with it...thereby not delivering much energy to the target.

The 5.56mm will also penetrate and then tumble like the M43...but it will then fragment and transfer most to all of it's energy to the body mass and wont come out the back side.

The only reason for using a bigger projectile like the 6.8mm is because you are coming up on thinner body massed targets where fragmentation will not occur due to lack of body density and resistance. Hence a bigger fmj bullet would help a great deal in transferring more energy to such a target via tumbling.

:rolleyes:
 
If I had the money, I'd love a PSD. The size, the piston operation, the improved barrier penetration, all things IMHO preferrable to the 5.56 on a DI platform, but until I can afford one...

Well, I'm going with the round and hardware I can A)find and B) afford.
 
48th Highlander Texas said:
Like who....

An Mp5 sized weapon that has more energy at 100m than a 14.5" M4 at the muzzle? Who wouldn't like that?

Fight among yourselves! :50cal:

Anyone know that Arms East is going to be importing 6.8 SPC and guns and uppers to boot? The DSP5's are in at the Department of State as we speak.

How can you argue with this?

A post from our forum by one of the other VP's at LWRC. By the way, we don't make any extra money on 6.8 SPC guns, we make less. We do this because we are armed with the data!

Well as some of you know, I go elk hunting every year with some of my buds from the FAL Files & this year I took a 6.8.

We hunt for cow elk as the tag prices are cheaper than bulls & you can't eat horns..... :D :D

Given the experience gained from the last 3 hunting seasons, I stalked up to a place where I thought there might be elk & I was rewarded with a clean kill on a 550lb cow elk at 45yds. First shot broke her spine & when she dropped, she raised her neck up & I took the opportunity to place a second, insurance shot through the neck to make sure she was dead right there & spare any suffering. No way I would have been able to follow up as quickly with a bolt gun as the interval between shots was less than a couple seconds.

Endless practice in 3 gun competitions led me to be completely comfortable with everything about my LWRC piston gun from the trigger to the scope. Art from Silver State Armory kindly overnighted me some 110gr Barnes Triple Shock ammo for use on the hunt & it performed most excellently. :D

So to the pics:

First two give some scale to the size of the beast bearing in mind that my 6.8 has a 17" barrel & a full length ACE stock:

A pic of the happy hunter with the tools of the trade:

Now we had to get his beast off the 8,500 ft mountain I shot her on!! So after I & 3 buds dragged her 150 yds to the side of the hill, we got her ready for a roll downward to the base of the mountain:

Looking down the way she is going to go:

At the processors, she was shown to be bigger than we thought as my best friend in the whole world is over 6 feet tall & she dwarfs him!

Now for the graphic images, 6.8 makes a mess boys & girls! This is the entry & exit wounds near the spine with the exit being the larger of the two on the left of the pic with 6.8 round shown for size comparison:

Follow up neck shot shown & notice the extensive shock trauma:

Neck in close up with cross sectional profile:

Spine shot showing massive trauma to surrounding area:

Exit wound in spine with 6.8 round for comparison:

Ditto but entry wound in neck:

All in all, I am VERY satisfied with my choice in caliber, weapon system & type of ammunition for this particular application. Is the 6.8 a killing round for elk? Yes, within it's limits of no greater than 150 to 200 yds. Deer could be shot at greater distances I think but a 550lb elk is a big, tough animal. Humans would be DOA within 600yds in my opinion, even with OTM ammo.

Art at SSA is THE man! :D :D Ammo performed perfectly, was one hole accurate @100yds & did the deed on this amimal. The aim of every hunter should be a quick, decisive kill with as little suffering as possible. The combination of the SSA ammo & our LWRC piston AR gave me the chance to do just that.

If I had the chance, this combination or a variant thereof is what I would want to carry into harm's way.

Try to replicate the results with a 5.56 if you dare....... :twisted:
Click to expand...

You lucky bastard lol
 
Ammo supply is the biggest hurdle for 6.8 here. Unless I can buy cases of 1000 at about the same price as 223, which is pushing to 400 bucks a case already, I just don't see a rifle that I cannot shoot and supply make too much sense. Better to have a .223 that can be supported than a magical 6.8 that has no ammo.

I will stick with the 7.62 when it comes out.
 
Scarecrow said:
... we can't hunt with AR's in Canada, or at least get caught trying to do so, so its sort of a mute point for us.
Click to expand...

If I've read 48th highlander's previos posts correctly, this is NOT an AR, or an AR variant, or anything like that.

With the piston system its totaly different than the gas operated design of the AR. In the video it clearly shows how the piston works and that's nothing like an AR... which gives this company a fighting chance of being able to get them as "non-restricted" rifles in Canada.

48th can correct me, but I'm sure they're about ready to go to the RCMP for classification. Check this thread out.. it explains everything about the LWRC design. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190897

PS... Good job on the elk!
 
Methinks some folks need to understand terminal ballistics. Mack kept talking about kinetic energy.

6.8 SPC consistently yaws and frags within 1-3 inches of hitting soft tissue and has >12" of soft tissue/10% ballistic gelatin. Better than just about anything else.

You miss the point on the elk hunt. Would you hunt Elk with a 5.56?
 
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