LWRC SABR rifle pics
- Thread starter 48th Highlander Texas
- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Scarecrow, it's the role the military is using for the .308 for a reason. So I guess the tables are reveresed on that one, because you seem to know better than the military.There you go I'll even use the same symbol you did.
Have you even fired a .308 AR? I ask because you're insulting posts really tell me that you've never even picked one up. Go try one out, compare it to the .223 in weight, recoil etc. Also give a 9mm a try. You'll probably come to the same conclusions that 9mm awsome for tactical entry situations, .223 decent all around, .308 excellent for DM operations. The same concepts that the military and police have been using for a while now.
Again if you haven't picked one up, please don't try to insult me. I really get the feeling Scarecrow that you haven't.
Absoluty the weapon can be used for other purposes. I can hunt Prairie dogs with a .338. It's going to get expensive and isn't really appropriate for the job but I can do it. Still the .204, .223, 22-250 would be
1) a lot more fun
2) a more appropriate firearm/cartridge
3) Less expensive
You guys have fun with that 12.5"
I don't know Scarecrow, but have been on the board with him here a few years, and can speak for him when I say yes I'd bet he certainly has fired a stoner type .308, if not owned one. I also know he's owned high quality .223's and 9mm's as well, and is not speaking out of his arse. You have some goofy arguments Epoxy, where you seem to feel yourself some sort of tactical authority, but you've still failed to give us your credentials. I found your 9mm perfect for entry amusing as well, especially given the .223's accelerating and rapid replacement of 9mm entry guns, where many now wonder why heavy, oversized for the round carbines like the MP5 lasted so long. Would I like an MP5? Yes. Are .223 carbines better for entry work? Almost certainly. Are there uses for a free float railed handguard on a .308 semi? Almost certainly.
Epoxy7; You don't see the crazy rail systems like the ones on the pictures above with Canadian rifles. Small spot at the fronts for extras but again most likely to be practical with the .223. Especially the CQB. Even the rails on Canadian guns aren't open designed like the ones above. Nor do they go the entire length of the rifle. If you look at the C7CT or C8CT you don't see lots of rails.[/quote said:
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what he said.
Ardent, you also seem to have some goofy arguments. With Goofy being downright kind. For example you laugh at the use of 9mm for entry situations (police for example) yet mention the MP5 a 9mm entry weaponThe MP5 for instance is a very well known, used and favourite weapon of many ERT teams. The RCMP ones are in 9mm. It's a great striker/entry gun.
.223 is also good. The 9mm MP5 is currently used by the armed forces and law enforcement units of over 40 different countries. so what was your argument again Ardent?
Are there better? yup. P90 would probably be my favourite choice. But small is the key. Definately not a .308.
If you call the 4.5 to 6.5 pound (depending on version) MP5 heavy then what do you call a 9 pound unloaded AR-10? Like the one above.
Weakest argument/personal attack of the year award goes to.......
wait for it...... Ardent
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Ian in Vic, I mentioned the short rails on the sides. The .223 carbines also have that. But.... not the crazy rails you see on the model above. I like the 4 railed guards on the 9mm and .223 carbines for CQB. I just don't like them on heavier DM style rifles. As I've already stated I believe the .308 is better suited for a DM rifle than a CQB rifle. I feel that a lot of people like the looks of the rails and are simply trying to justify them. The .308 AR style rifles are heavy. Don't expect to be clearing small rooms with flashlights etc on them. You'll be at a distinct disadvantage.
Anyways to each their own. If these rifles are non restricted and the accuracy is good. I'd consider one. But... the accuracy has to be very good and better than the current .308 AR rifles. Plus if it's restricted there will be competition with the current and no doubt cheaper AR-10 models, and the HK 417 civilian version.
Interesting times for rifle owners, that's for sure.
Anyways to each their own. If these rifles are non restricted and the accuracy is good. I'd consider one. But... the accuracy has to be very good and better than the current .308 AR rifles. Plus if it's restricted there will be competition with the current and no doubt cheaper AR-10 models, and the HK 417 civilian version.
Interesting times for rifle owners, that's for sure.
what is this? some kind of 'if you can only have one' argument? i want one of these( maybe two), an hk 417, maybe an ar-10 and any other rifle that appeals to me. this bickering about the rails is rediculous, don't like 'em? change them. too heavy? don't get one, too expensive for your taste? don't get one.
other than that, why not wait to handle and shoot one of these before nit-picking the design.
other than that, why not wait to handle and shoot one of these before nit-picking the design.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That's funny... Last time I checked an 11.5" AR weighed less, had a higher cyclic rate, offered vastly improved terminal ballistics, was effective against armor, and overpenetrated less compared to the 9mm MP5. Oh, and that funny little tidbit that tactical teams and forces are re-equiping with it over the MP5, including our very own RCMP who you've cited here. Must be nothing mind you.
Now lets get back to discussing how fantastic it is we have a US manufacturer actually taking us specifically into consideration and trying to help us out.
Scarecrow, it's the role the military is using for the .308 for a reason. So I guess the tables are reveresed on that one, because you seem to know better than the military.
The military uses whatever it has however its told to use it. Its hard to issue 20" rifles for CQB no mater what the caliber. Thank goodness for 12.5" barrels.
Dude 9mm for entry and my post tell you I know nothing? I'll tell you all the real wars where people are doing entry are defenetly not using 9mm and all 9mm subguns are being replaced be 5.56 because the real people who do this kind of work know what they want for it and its not 9mm.
Your right, I know nothing, 10/22 is perfect for entry because of low recoil, all subguns should come in it for use in real war zones like the range!
You guys have fun with that 12.5"
I am sure greentips will. Personaly I want a DMR
different threads for different discussions.your pulling this thread off topic.
sure, debate away, personally i use my restricteds at the range and my non's where ever i legally can, that's my intended purpose.
see: point of thread
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Ardent, stop and think for a second.
I'm not arguing that the .223 is a decent entry weapon when used in a CQB rifle. Frankly I suspect the P90 with it's 5.7x28 round would be even better (currently used by JTF2 I believe).
You stated that I was flawed with suggesting the 9mm as an entry caliber. Well it has been used as one for a very long time and with good results. The MP5 was and is an excellent weapon even if it's no longer the best.
My point was simply that certain caliber characteristics have advantages/disadvantages and when you try and use a caliber such as a .308 for something that another caliber excells in, it's a waste. Use the best tools for the job and don't try and turn a DM weapon into a CQB.
In your haste to try and discredit everything I say, you seem to have completely lost the entire point. Maybe this will help.
I'm not arguing that the .223 is a decent entry weapon when used in a CQB rifle. Frankly I suspect the P90 with it's 5.7x28 round would be even better (currently used by JTF2 I believe).
You stated that I was flawed with suggesting the 9mm as an entry caliber. Well it has been used as one for a very long time and with good results. The MP5 was and is an excellent weapon even if it's no longer the best.
My point was simply that certain caliber characteristics have advantages/disadvantages and when you try and use a caliber such as a .308 for something that another caliber excells in, it's a waste. Use the best tools for the job and don't try and turn a DM weapon into a CQB.
In your haste to try and discredit everything I say, you seem to have completely lost the entire point. Maybe this will help.
I know that the new LWRC rifle shoots about .75" 3 round group from 191 meters using Federal Gold Medal Match, how well does your gun shoot? You seriously think DPMS or even armalite can touch a hammer forged polygonal rifling heavy barreled rifle with stupid stainless steel mass produced garbage?
LWRC made there guns after the competition, in a open competition market like the states, trust me they know what they are doing.Your post have done nothing to advance this thread and have brought your non-existent credentials to a rock bottom low even before you produce them.
Now please stop hijacking the thread, some people who are actually interested have enough to read trough.
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I'd love to see those results Scarecrow. If it's true then it would be one heck of a nice firearm. Current DPMS LR-308 etc with their "crap" mass produced barrels have been known to get around .50 moa at 100 yards with match ammo. Haven't seen 200 yard results. Plus the changing of the stock trigger has been known to shrink those results.
By the way where do you get off with the credential crap? Discredit the argument not the person. Some class please.
Also I'm sorry I've taken the discussion off topic. Perhaps I should have contributed the usual garbage.
More guns are better, I'll pay anything to have the latest coolest badest firearms. Oh and anyone who disagree with me is either a "liberal and or a communist" (I'm not sure how that works but it seems to be the case). Why think when I can buy what is "cool" for the moment.
Or maybe I can post my thoughts on pros/cons of what I see? Imagine that an actual discussion on a discussion board. Who would have thought eh?
By the way where do you get off with the credential crap? Discredit the argument not the person. Some class please.
Also I'm sorry I've taken the discussion off topic. Perhaps I should have contributed the usual garbage.
More guns are better, I'll pay anything to have the latest coolest badest firearms. Oh and anyone who disagree with me is either a "liberal and or a communist" (I'm not sure how that works but it seems to be the case). Why think when I can buy what is "cool" for the moment.
Or maybe I can post my thoughts on pros/cons of what I see? Imagine that an actual discussion on a discussion board. Who would have thought eh?
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P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
Epoxy7, with all due respect STFU. this is about LWRC. if you want to play the whole "9mm vs 556 vs 308", please start another thread.
Stop 'cause you're only showing your arse!
If you can get 'em here in Canada as non-restricted, you've got two guaranteed sales here, possibly three once my brother gets a look at 'em.
