Lyman case trimmer~having issues, looking for input

.22LRGUY

.22LRGUY

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Hey guys, got one of these a couple of years ago https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/lyman/case-trimmers-accessories/lyman-universal-carbide-case-trimmer.html and it's worked perfectly, but since I only reload .223 now (about 200-300 rounds a year) it sure doesn't see much use. Has probably seen about 600-700 cases total, mostly .223..but some .204R and .243Win. When I bought it, none of my brass was new...all used at least 1x, trimmed, etc. I always FL re-size then double-check O/A length. No surprise, little to nothing TO be trimmed off so it functioned perfectly.

A couple of weeks ago, I came across a pile of range pick-up .223 someone gave me about 5 years ago. I was told primers were removed, it was re-sized and polished. I ran a few through the FL die to confirm~all good. Needed some TLC like primer pockets, but no issue there. I then checked the length, and it was all over spec...so..I decide to run it through the Lyman case trimmer and things started to go sideways.

Seems like the cutter head would bind on the brass and/or would trim so far, then stop. The depth adjustment in some cases never could bottom-out, leaving cases too long. Got me wondering if these trimmers only work well if they have less then about .020" to trim off...but then I started wondering if the cutters head itself might be dull. Rather, TOO dull to really cut smoothly. I DO know how these trimmers work, but I think I (wrongly?) assumed it couldn't be a dull cutter head...but maybe I'm wrong..?

I welcome any input, though I feel a bit dumb asking considering how simple these tools are!
 
I also have one of those, plus a Frankfort Arsenal case prep center which will only properly trim shouldered cases. After many years and quite a few hundred trims, I found the same thing you did, more commonly on .308 and 30.06, where the mouth hits the same spot on the cutter each time (this was before I got the FA Prep Center). Basically, all of the trim activity hits the same spot on the cutter and dulls for that specific size before the other parts of the cutter head. If I trimmed the 444 brass the mouth was contacting closer to the outside edge and still had "bite" to it.

The standard cutter heads that come with the most common, lower-priced trimmer such as powered prep centers and manual trimmer units are HSS, which will dull far more quickly than carbides. Solved it by buying two carbide cutters, one for the Lyman (same unit as you) and one to install on to the Frankfort Prep Center (they take the same cutter head shank). Trimming down now is effortless and fast. The carbides weren't that much more expensive than the HSS cutters - maybe $15 each more at the time, but seem to last far longer

p.s. I bought the RCBS carbides, I was catching info that those had longer life to the blades than the Lyman carbide cutters. Maybe that's incorrect, but they've worked for me so far, with a few hundred through the FA and likely 200+ of various through the Lyman. I still use the Lyman for some shouldered cases, since it isn't as much effort to set up for a small run as the FA.

O.N.G.
 
Thanks ONG! Going to double-check tonight, but I thought it WAS the carbide I had...now wondering. The carbide head lists at about $50 US if I'm reading that right, which is a little on the steep side for what it is. (I buy CNC tooling, saw blades, router bits, etc. as a function of my job) Regardless, when the cutter head is dull...which I think now is the issue...the whole tool is useless of course.
 
.22LRGUY said:
Thanks ONG! Going to double-check tonight, but I thought it WAS the carbide I had...now wondering. The carbide head lists at about $50 US if I'm reading that right, which is a little on the steep side for what it is. (I buy CNC tooling, saw blades, router bits, etc. as a function of my job) Regardless, when the cutter head is dull...which I think now is the issue...the whole tool is useless of course.
Click to expand...

That's more expensive than what I paid for them, as I recall they were only $28 each through Brownells about 18 months ago....of course, if a product is oriented towards the shooting target market, the price automatically doubles/triples/quadruples over what it would sell for as a more common hardware store item at the same sales volumes (I figure, anyway). Same applies to any hobby - motorcycles, boating, etc.
 
Things I have found with my Lyman trimmer and how I fixed them.

1) It wouldn't reliably lock smaller (.223) cases. the jaws would tighten to a point and then slip over the rim.
Solution: remove the 'jaws' and grind the relief angle a little sharper so they would further engage the rim.

2) If you look at the pilots and how they slip into the cutter face, the pilots have a slight radius on the cutter side, and there tends to be a radius on the 'stem' where it enters the cutter. the problem with this is that as the cutter cuts the brass.....it also rolls brass into this gap. This can cause one of two problems. the first being that it becomes difficult to pull the pilot out of the case after trimming, and the second being that once you have too much brass rolled into this gap, it acts as a stop and prevents the cutter from cutting further.
Solution: I took the pilots to work and turns the rads sharp so the pilot sits tight against the cutter face which prevents the brass being able to curl into the gap.
 
*MALICE* said:
Things I have found with my Lyman trimmer and how I fixed them.

1) It wouldn't reliably lock smaller (.223) cases. the jaws would tighten to a point and then slip over the rim.
Solution: remove the 'jaws' and grind the relief angle a little sharper so they would further engage the rim.

2) If you look at the pilots and how they slip into the cutter face, the pilots have a slight radius on the cutter side, and there tends to be a radius on the 'stem' where it enters the cutter. the problem with this is that as the cutter cuts the brass.....it also rolls brass into this gap. This can cause one of two problems. the first being that it becomes difficult to pull the pilot out of the case after trimming, and the second being that once you have too much brass rolled into this gap, it acts as a stop and prevents the cutter from cutting further.
Solution: I took the pilots to work and turns the rads sharp so the pilot sits tight against the cutter face which prevents the brass being able to curl into the gap.
Click to expand...

Interesting...I wonder if #2 could be the issue. Would literally feel like it's bottoming out...but hadn't. Where in Ontario are you...and do you feel like looking at my .223 (.22) pilot? :) I work near Leslie & 7 in Richmond Hill.

The "jaw"/chuck seems to be holding fine.

Also remembered~even though I keep the pressure even/light when trimming, the teeth on the cutter would bite a bit too much off at some point (on these longer cases) and once that happened, they'd keep finding those deeper notches and jam there. We use a company called FS Tools for our industrial cutters, I'm thinking about sending off my (non-carbide) cutter and asking them to touch it up. They do great work.
 
.22LRGUY said:
Interesting...I wonder if #2 could be the issue. Would literally feel like it's bottoming out...but hadn't. Where in Ontario are you...and do you feel like looking at my .223 (.22) pilot? :) I work near Leslie & 7 in Richmond Hill.

The "jaw"/chuck seems to be holding fine.

Also remembered~even though I keep the pressure even/light when trimming, the teeth on the cutter would bite a bit too much off at some point (on these longer cases) and once that happened, they'd keep finding those deeper notches and jam there. We use a company called FS Tools for our industrial cutters, I'm thinking about sending off my (non-carbide) cutter and asking them to touch it up. They do great work.
Click to expand...

With brass, you don't always want your tools to be razor sharp. As you've discovered, unless you can control the feed rigidly, the cutter can/will grab and bury itself in the material. You run into this problem a lot with manual drill, mills, and lathes. Guys will often dull the drill edge a little to prevent the grabbing.

Carbide tooling often doesn't hold as sharp an edge as HSS and is one of the reasons carbide heads (on case trimmers) usual work better.

So i wouldn't have FS sharpen your cutter head.

What length are the cases you are trimming and to what length are you trying to trim them too?
 
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*MALICE* said:
Things I have found with my Lyman trimmer and how I fixed them.

1) It wouldn't reliably lock smaller (.223) cases. the jaws would tighten to a point and then slip over the rim.
Solution: remove the 'jaws' and grind the relief angle a little sharper so they would further engage the rim.

2) If you look at the pilots and how they slip into the cutter face, the pilots have a slight radius on the cutter side, and there tends to be a radius on the 'stem' where it enters the cutter. the problem with this is that as the cutter cuts the brass.....it also rolls brass into this gap. This can cause one of two problems. the first being that it becomes difficult to pull the pilot out of the case after trimming, and the second being that once you have too much brass rolled into this gap, it acts as a stop and prevents the cutter from cutting further.
Solution: I took the pilots to work and turns the rads sharp so the pilot sits tight against the cutter face which prevents the brass being able to curl into the gap.
Click to expand...


On #1- I have this issue too, how did you take the jaws. Apart ? I did look at it and couldn't see how . I bought a little crow WFT for the 223 but will look at the Lyman again
 
Keithjohn said:
On #1- I have this issue too, how did you take the jaws. Apart ? I did look at it and couldn't see how . I bought a little crow WFT for the 223 but will look at the Lyman again
Click to expand...

IIRC (it was many moons ago that I did it), I just unscrewed the face plate on the chuck and slid the jaws out. Grind the back relief so the 'jaws' are sharper. You don't want to make them razor blades or anything, just enough so that they will sit deeper inside the rim.
 
I found that when that happens if you inside/outside chamfer it then run it through again it will cut correctly, I don't usually have issues but sometimes it seems to have the brass ball up a little against the pilot and it stops it from cutting fully.
I got tired of how slow the little hand powered cutter was and just bought a Frankford Arsenal case trim and prep center to replace my RCBS case prep center and I am really happy with the setup on the Frankford. It cuts my case prep time down drastically and I just finished prepping a couple thousand 223 cases last week. Case prep is the worst part of reloading and my new tool has made it so much better, the best $270 I've spent on reloading gear since I bought my Redding press.
 
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