M-14 Bedding and Barrel Harmonics

Sapper33

Sapper33

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Maybe this should go in precision, maybe not.

I like my M305, its fun, and it shoots well...but I want it to shoot better. I actually like the chinese stock, so I don't really want to replace it. But I would like to bed it.

I read through some posts on bedding that all really answered some questions on the subject, but now I have some additional questions: the posts I've seen only bed the receiver.

But: seeing that the purpose it to keep everything tight, would I see any ill effects if I also bed the trigger group?

Now to barrel harmonics: I understand the idea of a free floating barrel on bolt action rifles. But because semi-autos have big amounts of "stuff" hanging off the bottom (specifically) the gas tube. Will I gain anything bedding the end of the stock so the gas tube is supported?

On this last part, I'm also thinking it could help wit support for when I add a bipod
 
Where are getting your bedding instructions? The standard AMTU bedding directions for the M14 include both the trigger group and the fore-end, and this is what you should be looking at.
 
Buy these books.
Book108.jpg

http://www.scott-duff.com/Book108.jpg
The M14 Owner's Guide and Match Conditioning Instructions by Scott A. Duff and CWO John M. Miller
us30.gif

http://www.gunbooks.com/gfx/us30.gif
The U.S. .30 Cal. Gas Operated Service Rifles: A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen
Click to expand...
 
aah but then !

Theres the barrel tube at the ferrule with adjustable support bearings and the
tube around the gas piston with tension bearings also ! My initial experiments show tighter groups and no poi change with heat from long strings !
Standard epoxy bedding does not effect barrel stretch from heat and corresponding changes in barrel whip --
The ultimak hanguard does seem to help barrel whip with the added stiffness from the 4 clamps - like buying a heavy barrel ! In an epoxied action the groups dont shrink appreciably but seem to be more consistent when hot.

But for standard epoxy bedding theres photo how to's in this forum.
 
Bedding the receiver into the chu wood stock ? Don't waste yer time. The oils in the grains will act like a release agent (goofy bond) AND then the wood will compress quickly (much faster than the issue'd walnut and birch stocks) and now you have compromised what was supposed to be a stronger bedding system... kinda like building your dream house on sand. :rolleyes:

Buy yourself a Boyd's walnut stock, or a USGI wood stock, or better yet, a USGI glass stock. Then go ahead and bed things down. If you truly want to know how the harmonics experiments went along.... back in the 70's and 80's, my High Master (classification from NRA) coach told me that the USMC armorers experimented with all methods of contact and non-contact around the front band area. They tried these variables out:

1) Full pressure on front stock ferrule with bedding fixture to exert pressure while glass bedded. Don't spend your money on this fixture/tool. I'll lend you mine, the one I pass around in the M14 clinics.

2) NO pressure.... FREE floated, grind off the bottom tab on the front band.

3) GREASE'D contact point, with light pressure.... and then greased with heavy pressure.

4) Lots of pressure, but polish (using jeweller's rouge and crocus cloth) the front stock ferrule and inside the front band.

VERDICT ? None of these techniques gave significant improvements! :eek: So there you go.... Nothing made a difference until 1997 when the US Army MTU destroyed the USMC teams by shooting mouse guns. The super tweaked M16A2's with 1/2 MOA rear sights, Krieger barrels with Wylde chambers , shooting 80 grain Sierra MK VLD bullets, etc, etc, etc. This whole story is documented all over the internet and several NRA publications. Moral of the story? Shoot an AR15 in the Camp Perry National Matches & NRA High Power game!!! :evil: These experiments are decades old now.

So, save your money and glass bedding efforts until you buy a USGI stock. Burn you chu wood stock along with pictures of my buddy Jack "Let's negotiate with the Taliban" Layton. Don't bother glass bedding your $ 400 boomstick unless you are planning on coming out to my Service Rifle matches at Connaught or the BCRA Service Conditions matches or the APRA Service matches outside Calgary, or the Spruce Grove NRA High Power matches. Yuk yuk yuk yuk :D

If you really, really must bed yer boomstick, come to one of my clinics and we'll bed (well, I'll show you how to do it with my 'finger of authority') that puppy !! :D

Cheers,
Barney
 
+1 on Barney's comment...

shoot the M14 for fun and use minor tweaks and KISS principle for improvements. If you want to shoot matches and still have beer change in your wallet, go with an AR for your super boomstick. :D
 
Hey guys. I have followed these threads on bedding different rifles, but I cannot seem to visualize it. Are there any pics on how to bed the M14?
 
Barney,

We have had pretty good success with bedding the chu wood stocks. Not great but pretty good. We pilar bed them so the wood has a really hard time compressing. Works quite well and for the guy on a budget, the chu wood will work untill he/she can get a better stock to work with.

Scott
 
bedding

The viron 4 stock works - 2 pressure bearings on the gas cylinder and 2 pressure bearings on the barrel allow the barrel to stretch when it heats but not sag and whip in a different direction. Hot barrel groups print in the same place as cold groups - no matter how hot. Standard stocks print much lower when the barrel heats - I have one norc that shoots a one inch 3 rd. group, the next an inch lower etc. until I get 30 rds in a one inch by 5 inch vertical strip.
Been testing the viron for a couple of weeks now. The groups are also smaller - south african shoots one inch at a hundred cold,opens to one and a half hot.
Lots of work to make the stock fit the rifle though - dremeling and epoxy bedding . Takes a while and a lot of rounds to find the sweet spot of tension -one screw affects the other three--they all have to be perfect - just touching no more. Will post a pic of the stock when she who must be obeyed gets home with the camera.
 
Splatter said:
Nice.
Where do the "barrel pressure bearings" go, up near the gas cylinder or nearer the midle of the barrel?
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At the front of the stock there is a metal cradle that the barrel rests in and a tube below for the gas cylinder , the barrel pressure bearings are under the barrel, the cylinder bearings are on top of the cylinder.
Its a plastic carbon fiber coating over a G.I. wood stock. I like the rear reciever heel block that screws down into the stock locking the receiver onto the bedding accomplishing the same as nat'l match rear receiver extended block.The VIRON handguard uses silicon rubber blocks to pressure the op rod guide to stabilize the center of the barrel. I'm just using the stock handguard until I get another ULTIMAK. I like the way the ULTIMAK stiffens the barrel.

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