M-14 Bolt Jammed Open at Range!
- Thread starter rishi65
- Start date
If your op rod guide is loose there are a couple of ways to secure it. I use green loctite and two roll pins. One fits in the middle of the other. Done this to three so far and no problems. But I did mix and match to get the best fit. While it was drying I did the tilt test to make sure all was good and yes I had to use a BFH on one or two to make sure thing moved smoothly.
walleyed99
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- I'm not telling, Sask
45ACPKING, is not Hungry but he may be able to help you out as well. 45ACPKING is formerly M14DOC. Hungry can be found at Tactical teacher in the Dealer Network tab.
I removed mine and used a cold chisel to stake grooves around the barrel where the guide sits. I then put red loctite on the staked area, aligned the guide and hammered it in place over the staked area. Once it was dry "24hrs" I insured the hole was clear with a drill and used a AR15 solid tapered sight block pin instead of a roll pin.
Haha, it seems I've won today's novice level internetting award. I got my usernames crossed. In any case, M14DOC had been kind enough to help me previously, and was also friendly enough to overlook my mistake in PM'ing him.
He's raised the issue that (without having been able to see the rifle himself) the receiver may have been remachined at the factory, and may be out of spec to the point of being junk... This is bad news
I'll also send a PM to Hungry.
Cheers guys, I'll report back with any further answers I glean.
He's raised the issue that (without having been able to see the rifle himself) the receiver may have been remachined at the factory, and may be out of spec to the point of being junk... This is bad news
I'll also send a PM to Hungry.
Cheers guys, I'll report back with any further answers I glean.
TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
Well I would have to see the receiver physically myself before making a judgement calls.
Folks I love you all and your kind words but honestly I am just a tweaker M14 or Garand nutbar. M14Doc is the true M14Plumber. He know lots and lots. I am just the delivery guy that makes things look easy. Don't be fooled by my stale jokes.
Cheers, Barney
Folks I love you all and your kind words but honestly I am just a tweaker M14 or Garand nutbar. M14Doc is the true M14Plumber. He know lots and lots. I am just the delivery guy that makes things look easy. Don't be fooled by my stale jokes.
Cheers, Barney
After viewing the pics and comms, It certainly boils down to either a out of spec receiver or bolt.
Taking some measurements in the receiver track , depth and width ect. Distance from heel to bridge ect. But then you'll need to assume usgi numbers/drawings for reference.
Same goes for bolt.
It is looking like you may have discovered the problem in comparing bolts however. While it's not a common issue, I've certainly had to replace new bolts that didn't quite fit right for one reason or another.
Your issue is tough because it's not a new from store rifle with a warranty allowing return.
That offending portion of your bolt should be super hard and should only show significant wear after many thousand rounds. In my opinion, if significant wear has caused that part or the bolt to degrade or if it came out of the box machined that way.... It is a significant flaw in the rifle, I wouldn't put another live round through it with that bolt
Taking some measurements in the receiver track , depth and width ect. Distance from heel to bridge ect. But then you'll need to assume usgi numbers/drawings for reference.
Same goes for bolt.
It is looking like you may have discovered the problem in comparing bolts however. While it's not a common issue, I've certainly had to replace new bolts that didn't quite fit right for one reason or another.
Your issue is tough because it's not a new from store rifle with a warranty allowing return.
That offending portion of your bolt should be super hard and should only show significant wear after many thousand rounds. In my opinion, if significant wear has caused that part or the bolt to degrade or if it came out of the box machined that way.... It is a significant flaw in the rifle, I wouldn't put another live round through it with that bolt
Hello folks,
I hate it when these threads don't have follow ups from the O/P after the issues have been worked out. So here goes:
The rifle was sent back to Norinco's Canadian distributor (North Sylva Co) for inspection and possible repairs. All Norc products have a one year warranty.
While they didn't agree with what information I'd gleaned from other board members, they also didn't tell me what they did to the rifle. My records show that the bolt has been changed (and presumably lapped in), the barrel has been indexed, and the op rod has been swapped.
They really provided excellent service at North Sylva, were easy to deal with, and communicated well. My hat comes off to them, and I can't wait to test the rifle at the range.
Cheers all!
I hate it when these threads don't have follow ups from the O/P after the issues have been worked out. So here goes:
The rifle was sent back to Norinco's Canadian distributor (North Sylva Co) for inspection and possible repairs. All Norc products have a one year warranty.
While they didn't agree with what information I'd gleaned from other board members, they also didn't tell me what they did to the rifle. My records show that the bolt has been changed (and presumably lapped in), the barrel has been indexed, and the op rod has been swapped.
They really provided excellent service at North Sylva, were easy to deal with, and communicated well. My hat comes off to them, and I can't wait to test the rifle at the range.
Cheers all!
Update
UPDATE: I always want to make sure to include as much information as possible in these threads, especially in cases where other forum members have helped me out. 45ACPKING and TacticalTeacher really go out of their way to offer advice and help wherever possible.
So, in the interests of full disclosure, here's what happened after I got the rifle back (because I hate it when these threads have no real conclusion, as this is sure to happen to someone else).
I received the rifle back from North Sylva Co. a division of Parklands Manor, one of the largest firearms distributors in Canada (if not these largest) in mid May. I dealt with George at North Sylva. As I said, they replaced and lapped in a new bolt for the rifle, new op rod, and indexed the barrel. However when I got the rifle back to the range in mid may of 2014, it continuously FTF as a result of very light primer strikes. I took some photos of the cases (after waiting for an agonizingly long period of time, once they were struck but failed to go off), and sent them to George. This was with Chi Com, copper washed, 147gr. FMJ (batches marked 93, 96 and even 89 IIRC). I even tested with some 150gr Federal, and had the same problem. One round in 10 or more, would FTF.
I contacted George, who had already (at NO charge, other than me sending them the rifle) test fired, and repaired the rifle. He was willing to take the rifle back again. I was really impressed that a guy who sells thousands of these things as a wholesaler, and hadn't actually sold me the rifle, was willing to go to this length, over ONE defective unit. Unfortunately, their investigation turned up nothing, at their range, and with their ammo, the rifle functioned normally. I tried different mags, different ammo, even different op rod springs, to no avail.
I contacted George again, and he said there was no point in taking the gun back to their facility for a third time (he was right). Instead, he suggested that I should try new firing pins, and promptly packaged up three firing pins, and sent them out to me via mail. (Again, I was thrilled and impressed by this). George explained to me that firing pins for these rifles are bench fitted, and therefore have varying lengths. This meant that with the new bolt, the original firing pin may not be sufficiently long to strike hard primer, milsurp ammo, consistently.
Upon receiving the firing pins, I marked them all for length (1 through 3), and marked the original firing pin as well. I installed (with some effort, and WITHOUT a bolt tool) the new firing pin (it took me four hours, the first time....) and headed to the range.
That's all it took, the rifle functions flawlessly, and has since eaten hundreds of rounds, of all sorts.
My personal thanks to everyone mentioned herein. This forum is a wonderful resource for us recreational shooters, and I'm really enjoying BOTH of my Norc M14's.
UPDATE: I always want to make sure to include as much information as possible in these threads, especially in cases where other forum members have helped me out. 45ACPKING and TacticalTeacher really go out of their way to offer advice and help wherever possible.
So, in the interests of full disclosure, here's what happened after I got the rifle back (because I hate it when these threads have no real conclusion, as this is sure to happen to someone else).
I received the rifle back from North Sylva Co. a division of Parklands Manor, one of the largest firearms distributors in Canada (if not these largest) in mid May. I dealt with George at North Sylva. As I said, they replaced and lapped in a new bolt for the rifle, new op rod, and indexed the barrel. However when I got the rifle back to the range in mid may of 2014, it continuously FTF as a result of very light primer strikes. I took some photos of the cases (after waiting for an agonizingly long period of time, once they were struck but failed to go off), and sent them to George. This was with Chi Com, copper washed, 147gr. FMJ (batches marked 93, 96 and even 89 IIRC). I even tested with some 150gr Federal, and had the same problem. One round in 10 or more, would FTF.
I contacted George, who had already (at NO charge, other than me sending them the rifle) test fired, and repaired the rifle. He was willing to take the rifle back again. I was really impressed that a guy who sells thousands of these things as a wholesaler, and hadn't actually sold me the rifle, was willing to go to this length, over ONE defective unit. Unfortunately, their investigation turned up nothing, at their range, and with their ammo, the rifle functioned normally. I tried different mags, different ammo, even different op rod springs, to no avail.
I contacted George again, and he said there was no point in taking the gun back to their facility for a third time (he was right). Instead, he suggested that I should try new firing pins, and promptly packaged up three firing pins, and sent them out to me via mail. (Again, I was thrilled and impressed by this). George explained to me that firing pins for these rifles are bench fitted, and therefore have varying lengths. This meant that with the new bolt, the original firing pin may not be sufficiently long to strike hard primer, milsurp ammo, consistently.
Upon receiving the firing pins, I marked them all for length (1 through 3), and marked the original firing pin as well. I installed (with some effort, and WITHOUT a bolt tool) the new firing pin (it took me four hours, the first time....) and headed to the range.
That's all it took, the rifle functions flawlessly, and has since eaten hundreds of rounds, of all sorts.
My personal thanks to everyone mentioned herein. This forum is a wonderful resource for us recreational shooters, and I'm really enjoying BOTH of my Norc M14's.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Rishi65 thumbs up on following up on your original OP. This should be an example to us all.
I'm glad to hear about the product being covered so promptly and thoroughly by the importer. I was not aware this level of service existed for my Norinco products(M14,NP-22, CQa) probaly because they performed flawlessly, and was led to believe by all the Nork naysayers in "good luck in getting warranty on that POS".... etc etc..........
P.S., I have the real McCoys to compare the Nork's to as well,..just in case someone should feel I didn't have any "real" guns for an unbiased and hands on comparison.
I'm glad to hear about the product being covered so promptly and thoroughly by the importer. I was not aware this level of service existed for my Norinco products(M14,NP-22, CQa) probaly because they performed flawlessly, and was led to believe by all the Nork naysayers in "good luck in getting warranty on that POS".... etc etc..........
P.S., I have the real McCoys to compare the Nork's to as well,..just in case someone should feel I didn't have any "real" guns for an unbiased and hands on comparison.
TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
Well, that's super to hear. Glad that George at North Sylva made things happen for you.
With 45acpking here with his extensive technical background and my tweaking advice, we are yin and yang, I would like to think. Many people here on this forum have benefited from our advice and help, so much so, often other experienced M14 lovers are offering to help out and that saves the both of us from typing lots.
We have a great community and after having been appointed a moderator back in 2002 by Greentips, I feel that we have journeyed a long way together!
Most happy to be a part of your journey!
Barney
With 45acpking here with his extensive technical background and my tweaking advice, we are yin and yang, I would like to think. Many people here on this forum have benefited from our advice and help, so much so, often other experienced M14 lovers are offering to help out and that saves the both of us from typing lots.
We have a great community and after having been appointed a moderator back in 2002 by Greentips, I feel that we have journeyed a long way together!
Most happy to be a part of your journey!
Barney
It's also worth noting, that the four hours it took me to assemble the bolt the first time, were a result of using an old punch I had sitting in my tool box, and the base of a wooden handled roofing hammer, to smash the extractor back into place. My fingers were bloody and sore for a week and there were bits of lacquered wood wedged into my bolt assembly, lol (no I don't make a point of treating my guns this way, and yes it made me sick to my stomach to do that). It can be done without a bolt assembly tool, painfully.
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Thanks for sharing and updating, very informative.
First time I picked up a M305 was at the Canadian tire. I cocked the rifle and the bolt got off the op rod and was stuck behind.
I still bought one, but elsewhere.
First time I picked up a M305 was at the Canadian tire. I cocked the rifle and the bolt got off the op rod and was stuck behind.
I still bought one, but elsewhere.
