M-14 in Afghanistan

Looking at our MSRP for a Commerical Mk11 or M110 package sold to civilian is not even 15K so I am at a loss for that number.

H2OMAN, LTC "Sinister" Dave Liwanag has rebuted your comments about the M-14 routinely, given his operational experience in some rather discrete units, and his commanding the AMU prior to his last trip to Iraq back on the JSOC side.

Soldiers do not take the M-14 in basic training, so their is no muscle memory, or corporate knowledge in maintaining or fielding these systems, nor are their stocks of weapons that are in shape for fielding.

Given the location of the safety, the difficulties in shooting M118LR suppressed, the issues with mounting lights and lasers, it is an archaeic platfrom.

I have a M1A - When I get enough money I will send it to Smith to work on, but I am not mistaking it as a current combat weapon system.

I love 1911's, I carried one in Iraq, and have several here, including a Larry Vickers gun that was LAV's personal go to gun before we did a deal. However I would NEVER recommend that the Army go back to it. Even CAG has gone to Glock22's.

Your mistaking nostalgic love for a system, and trying to foist it into an environment you have ZERO experience in.
I take my job very seriously, and I want the BEST system into the hands of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines to have the best system that they can. At this time that is the KAC SR-25 system in either M-110 or Mk11Mod1/2 forms.
We keep attempting to improve on our system, and I would be disappointed if other manufactures did not try to improve theirs, as the majority of us have come from the services and we have a debt to offer them the best system we can.
 
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Basically the M14 can do everything the M110 can but it is an old design and the M110 is a more well thought out platform that better suits the needs of a modern military, you would have to be pretty naive to believe otherwise but like many have stated it will be a while before you see the M14 entirely replaced by the M110. KAC is producing less than 900 a year, unless production is ramped up it could very well take about 5-10 years before the M14 is completely retired from service with the US forces.
 
H2O MAN said:
Thank you for that information Morpheus.



Apples-to-Apples: The cost of getting the M14 to meet the requirements is thousands less than the M110.
I don't know the exact number but armed with your $9729 price... $6K less per rifle is a realistic number.
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H20,

Have you looked at the requirements or doing this intuitively? I am telling you that you could not meet the requirements as laid out in the contract for $3700 USD delivered. I would guess it will be less than a new production rifle based on the differencial of using a surplus rifle however your number is not realistic given the components and equipment that are required. Seriously, apples to apples...

The M14s time is passing. It had a new lease on life. A new system is coming online. This does not deminish the history of the M14 but is the not the ultimate rifle....for that matter, neither is the M110.
 
WWIII said:
Basically the M14 can do everything the M110 can but it is an old design and the M110 is a more well thought out platform that better suits the needs of a modern military, you would have to be pretty naive to believe otherwise but like many have stated it will be a while before you see the M14 entirely replaced by the M110. KAC is producing less than 900 a year, unless production is ramped up it could very well take about 5-10 years before the M14 is completely retired from service with the US forces.
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The contract is schedule to run 5 years...
 
WWIII - we are close to 200rifles a month now, by next month we should be at the number.
I was doing triggers on a bunch going out the door the last two days, as well helping out with the qualification shoots.
My best group is so far .53, and I am not in a good shape shooting as some of the others here.
I have a demo M110 that was built just prior to SHOT, the gun is a dream, and I'm also saving my pennies so I can afford one - if I could unload my Hk416 10.4" for a really good price I would snatch one up - sadly no one down here wants to give me $9k for that ;)
 
Jay T said:
Further to my last, all you internet commandos until you have been there, done that like some of the guys here. Just shut the s**t pump under your nose!!! Some people here have seen actual combat and I am not talking about call of duty 4!!! some guys have actually fired rounds in anger. They maybe, just maybe, might know a bit more about combat and the weapons of combat, than some one who read about combat and ballistic tables on the internet!!!
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Jay T, Where are you at now? I'm stuck in Wainwright until next year myself. Started off in the 1st and then the 3rd for ten years.

Take care,

VP
 
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KevinB said:
WWIII - we are close to 200rifles a month now, by next month we should be at the number.
I was doing triggers on a bunch going out the door the last two days, as well helping out with the qualification shoots.
My best group is so far .53, and I am not in a good shape shooting as some of the others here.
I have a demo M110 that was built just prior to SHOT, the gun is a dream, and I'm also saving my pennies so I can afford one - if I could unload my Hk416 10.4" for a really good price I would snatch one up - sadly no one down here wants to give me $9k for that ;)
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Sounds like a winner, What do you think the retail version would cost$$ and when do you foresee them being available?
 
So, the M110 is 7.62 NATO. Was there a reason this calibre was chosen, other than it is a NATO calibre?

I don't know much about the system, so was wondering why they would not use a round with perhaps better long range characteristics?
Is it because they plan to use this platform in the range that a 7.62 is comfortable?

No 1200 yards shots with it?? :D
 
WWIII - if your in the US, any KAC dealer can order a KMC marked lower (Knight's Manufacturing Company) marked system. The Mk11 system is retail 14,222.45 USD. The M110 is not sold as a system - the rifle and suppressor retail for 10,625.69
Lead time from order to delivery in not more than 6 months (the unfortunate biproduct of a rifle in demand by both the US Military and foreign militaries)

Unfortunately for Canadians these rifles are not available for civilian export, as they have been restricted by the US Department of State.

NONE of KAC's 7.62x51 guns are exportable for civilians unfortunately.
 
KevinB said:
Looking at our MSRP for a Commerical Mk11 or M110 package sold to civilian is not even 15K so I am at a loss for that number.
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The retail number you posted below should help you understand how I came up with $14K - $15K.

KevinB said:
WWIII - if your in the US, any KAC dealer can order a KMC marked lower (Knight's Manufacturing Company) marked system. The Mk11 system is retail 14,222.45 USD. The M110 is not sold as a system - the rifle and suppressor retail for 10,625.69
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KevinB said:
H2OMAN, LTC "Sinister" Dave Liwanag has rebuted your comments about the M-14 routinely, given his operational experience in some rather discrete units, and his commanding the AMU prior to his last trip to Iraq back on the JSOC side.
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"Sinister" ??, I see no post by this individual in this thread.
He has not replied to anything I've said here... does he work with you?



Bottom line: The US military is bringing more M14s into AFG.
They requested the M14 and they are getting the M14.
 
These threads take so long to read when I have to google all the acronyms to decipher the message haha. It is as bad as trying to read a 13 year old girl's text messages :D
 
Morph/Kevin:

You guys are way to generous with your time. :) A guy is debating the two of you with no facts/figures and "guesstimating" what the military spends on contracting. He doesn't even understand contracting or life cycle mgt, I would just save your breath with this clown. Yep, AAR's/Cbt Experience/Testing aside, the M14 is the perfect platform - like always the military and contractors have it all wrong.
 
H2O MAN said:
The call went out about 6 months ago to bolster the coming surge in AFG.
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Common sense dictates this is just a stop gap measure to fill the void as DMR in some units until the M110 is in full service. You will not see any effort on behalf of the military to designate the M14 as the official DMR/SASS for the US forces, clearly this role will belong to the M110 as the various units begin to acquire them.
 
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WWIII,

Both the AR-10/M110 and the M14 are equally obsolete/viable and both are being used as a stop gap measure until something new is acquired.
We will not see any effort on behalf of the US military to designate the M110 as the official DMS for the US forces.

As I understand things... the role of the M110 is SASS and it's not nearly as well suited to the role of DMR as the M14 is.
The two rifles should work well together and compliment each other.
 
Springfield. There is no substitute! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

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