M-305 b

M14Doctor said:
i don't remember anything out of the ordinary and she is already enroute. The inspection sheet enclosed with the rifle will have details on headspace. If i have time later i'll pull my copy of your inspection sheet and post the info you seek :D
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No need to pull your copy, I didn't know you sent out an inspection sheet with details on headspace.
 
Rocket Surgery said:
165g interlocks were giving me gas system problems with:

RL15
Varget
IMR 4064
H4895
IMR4895

The accuracy was very good with RL15 though. This was all with DA NATO brass, maybe .308 commercial will have enough pressure to fully cycle the action. When I tried 150g interlocks I shot off 50 rounds no problem but I wasn't checking for groups.

I wouldn't run out and buy more than a hundred 165g bullets without testing first. The FBSP 150g interlocks I'll have more accuracy reports soon, I just have to figure out how to solve my biggest problem on a budget: CHU WOOD

I also have a shaky gas system, so I'm expecting good times once this is sorted out
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I'm also using this bullet in a bolt gun. Both of my .308 Win chambered rifles are used for hunting only, no service rifle or anything like that.

I'm using a 165 gr bullet simply because I don't feel that the 150 gr round has enough weight to take down an elk if the shot isn't placed properly. I like a little insurance on bullet weight.

Seeing as how M14Doctor has done some work to my M305, including a new oprod spring guide, I don't forsee a problem even if I have to go up to 180 gr bullets. As you know, sometimes you "forget" things at home (hehehe:eek:) and have to work with what you can get. Most CT and WalMarts around here carry .308 Win in 150 and 180 gr bullets, nothing in between.
 
Okay, maybe I'm unnecessarily concerned with head space here. It's just that I have read so much about this issue with these guns that I am disappointed with the arrival of a brand new gun measuring 1.638". I will get a set of Clymer gauges just to confirm my current findings. BTW, the bolt disassembly tool works just as advertised! Anyone with an M-14, and the will to tinker, should have one.

I guess it's off to the range then with at least one cartridge, a case micrometer, and a good 10x loup :)
 
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woodlotowner said:
It's just that I have read so much about this issue with these guns that I am disappointed with the arrival of a brand new gun measuring 1.368".
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I wuz in the same boat you were a year ago. Mine measured 1.638" (your quotes keep saying 1.368" and that's quite incorrect) and shot just fine with 150 gr factory and my handloads. Iwas grouping about 1.5" MOA and wanted to see if I could tighten up. I bought a new bolt and lapped it in (see other posts) and I did indeed tighten up the groups.

To resolve some of the length issues I used care and attention in reloading and stayed to 2700 fps specs. Life is good.

:D
 
shredder said:
I'm also using this bullet in a bolt gun. Both of my .308 Win chambered rifles are used for hunting only, no service rifle or anything like that.

I'm using a 165 gr bullet simply because I don't feel that the 150 gr round has enough weight to take down an elk if the shot isn't placed properly. I like a little insurance on bullet weight.

Seeing as how M14Doctor has done some work to my M305, including a new oprod spring guide, I don't forsee a problem even if I have to go up to 180 gr bullets. As you know, sometimes you "forget" things at home (hehehe:eek:) and have to work with what you can get. Most CT and WalMarts around here carry .308 Win in 150 and 180 gr bullets, nothing in between.
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Just make sure that you find different brands with the same POI if you're using a scope. I remember the Federal Fusion 165g hit 3 inches northeast of where my handloads were going at 100y.
 
Sobo, I have corrected my typos in citing head space specs.

I only use hand loads in anything I shoot and intend to use a starting load only with 150 grain bullets. If these loads cycle the action well then I will look no further other than to try different powders and 150s perhaps in an attempt to find the most accurate conservative load. I won't hunt with this gun, so 1/2" groups at 100 yards is not necessary ;)

Clymers are ordered from Brownells.
 
Rocket Surgery said:
Just make sure that you find different brands with the same POI if you're using a scope. I remember the Federal Fusion 165g hit 3 inches northeast of where my handloads were going at 100y.
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3 inches!!!

Yikes!!!:eek:

Well, before I took it out after game, I'd have to do some sighting in first!

I use a Bushnell Trophy 3x9 with the DOA reticle on my M305. Works great.
 
I run a sighmark triple duty 4-16x44 mildot IR on mine, works well.

I haven't shot my m305 in a year now since I realized load development on a shakey gas system and chu wood stock will lead to mental hospital.

I get tempted sometimes just to cram some dental floss in my gas system to tighten it up ghetto style then slap a USGI stock on the thing and call it a day.
 
woodlotowner said:
Quick questions while I am waiting for the Clymer gauges and the chance to shoot the M305B...how does one determine if the indexing is correct?
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first determine if your flash hider is correctly machined and not slightly tilted at the dovetail that the front sight sits on.

if it is tilted due to improper machining..... you will need a usgi or similar , properly machined flash hider.

you remove the front sight from the flash hider and set the action in a soft jawed vice. Use a level on the flat behind the rear sight on the receiver heel and a level on top of the flash hider dovetail. The two should correspond when measured. If they do not correspond and the flash hider is not the culprit.... your barrel is out of index.... or simply put, not rotated to top dead center.
if it's minor..... like out by only 2 or 3 dgrees either way from center..... and you are scoping the rifle.... as long as the indexing is not deflecting the oprod, than it's no big deal.

for those wanting to use reliable irons..... Indexing is kind of an important thing ;)
 
M14Doctor said:
first determine if your flash hider is correctly machined and not slightly tilted at the dovetail that the front sight sits on.

if it is tilted due to improper machining..... you will need a usgi or similar , properly machined flash hider.

you remove the front sight from the flash hider and set the action in a soft jawed vice. Use a level on the flat behind the rear sight on the receiver heel and a level on top of the flash hider dovetail. The two should correspond when measured. If they do not correspond and the flash hider is not the culprit.... your barrel is out of index.... or simply put, not rotated to top dead center.
if it's minor..... like out by only 2 or 3 dgrees either way from center..... and you are scoping the rifle.... as long as the indexing is not deflecting the oprod, than it's no big deal.

for those wanting to use reliable irons..... Indexing is kind of an important thing ;)
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So, would indexing affect head spacing then? It would appear that a further minor twist of the barrel (if CW is indicated) to index properly would bring the bolt mating surfaces closer together? Yes, I can see where this would be kind of important. ;)
 
Rocket Surgery said:
So were there any actual QC improvements on the m14b?
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well...... it's very early in the game.... I'd need to handle a few dozen more to say for sure.
I have one in front of me of the new batch. Just arrived today from a client.
other than the receiver markings..... it's identical to the new batches of poly's and rinco's that arrived at dealers within the past year..... thqat i have inspected.
headspace bang on 1.638" just like the majority of the 2009's (which are quite consistant regarding headspace)
rear sights are good on this one
trigger..... any improvements over the 2009 models is not being detected by me.... but the 2009's have pretty decent triggers but the hammer hook wall drag on the sear is still evident.
One thing i noticed on rifles from 2009 and newer is that far fewer of the ones i've handled have the "walking" trigger pin. This is caused by the pin holes thru the trigger body not being drilled straight.

John hasn't given us a detailed list as to what improvements were indeed made. In my opinion..... and remember it's just my opinion (and everyones got one ) ..... the step up in "QC" at the chinese factories started with the 2009 bell lifestyles polytechs and norincos.

Honestly though it's gonna take at least 50 of the new rifles for me to stand behind any claim of improvement over what has come before.

BOTTOM LINE...... seen as Hungry is away , I'll say it :D. Don't buy one..... buy two..... or your #### will fall off LOL
At this price point, how can you go wrong? We eagerly cleared out the inventories of these rifles starting the day they first arrived..... and i do not expect anything to change in that regard.
It's an M14 for under 500.00 ..... our American brothers are crying with envy hehehehe
 
woodlotowner said:
So, would indexing affect head spacing then? It would appear that a further minor twist of the barrel (if CW is indicated) to index properly would bring the bolt mating surfaces closer together? Yes, I can see where this would be kind of important. ;)
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simply put, yes. How measurable this would be would depend on just how many degrees or minutes the barrel is out.
tightening a barrel to achieve zero index will shrink your headspace ever so slightly.... and in these rifles.... that's not so bad.
It's when they are over indexed and reading long in the 7.62 headspace that i get concerned, as pulling the barrel, resetting the torque shoulder and threading her in to zero index..... your headspace could grow ever so slightly.
Maybe not a big deal for those shooting Nato ammo.... but for the reloaders using .308 commercial brass and loading to saami specs..... anything over 1.640" is a NO GO for .308 in my opinion, in these chinese rifles. Some might disagree but i like to play it safe.
 
Pretty sure John said there are no improvements beyond QC, somewhere in the bottomless pit that is the M14b thread in the Marstar forum. :confused:
 
can someone link or pm me cleaning instructions? got the m305B, first rifle i've owned, no tools (yet), think i've read something about throwing it though a cycle on the dishwater with just hot water to get the oil off, and i've cleaned and oiled bolt actions before, but yeah, novice here

thanks
 
Cmd_Bash said:
can someone link or pm me cleaning instructions? got the m305B, first rifle i've owned, no tools (yet), think i've read something about throwing it though a cycle on the dishwater with just hot water to get the oil off, and i've cleaned and oiled bolt actions before, but yeah, novice here

thanks
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Don't even think of the dishwasher! There was a thread with pics a few years ago based on someone who tried just that........the results were very damaging with lots of rust on the barrel, receiver and other exposed metal.

The dishwasher might be of use to cleaning very dirty wooden stocks that have been cleaned with oven cleaner after taking off the metal parts. That won't apply to the polymer stocks used on the current crop of M305s.

With a new M305, the main thing is to clean out the barrel, chamber and and reciever of excess cosmoline that may hamper cycling and increase pressures (i.e. by cosmoline in the bore). So long as you've cleaned those areas, and any other places where the cosmoline/oil might dirty your clothes, I wouldn't sweat about getting off every last bit of oil.
 
Cmd_Bash said:
can someone link or pm me cleaning instructions? got the m305B, first rifle i've owned, no tools (yet), think i've read something about throwing it though a cycle on the dishwater with just hot water to get the oil off, and i've cleaned and oiled bolt actions before, but yeah, novice here

thanks
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My preference for cleaning is a deep bucket of scalding hot water and citrus based engine degreaser. Strip the rifle to nothing. Spray on the degreaser and scrub with a plastic dish brush. Dunk in hot water to rinse. Pull them out, shake off the excess water and let the rest air dry. Give everything a goodly coating of light machine oil - not solvent or penetrating oil. Petroleum axle grease as per SOP (hammer hooks, bolt lug races, op rod track and rear bearing surfaces of the bolt). Get all the gunk out of the bolt, especially the firing pin cavity. And always fire with the gas piston dry, no oil.

Unless the wood is really offensive, leave it in the sunshine to warm up, poke or scrape out the little gobs and then wipe down with dry cloths. Cleaners and porous wood are not a good mix.
 
hot water and citris based cleaner is great..... and another excellent product is Simply Green .... another benefit is while these cut grease like a charm..... they are all non toxic.

i use pipe cleaners(firing pin channel, spindle valve hole), tooth brush(receiver raceways , oprod track and other nooks and crannies) and a soft cloth to wash the parts down then rinse in hot hot water..... IMMEDIATELTY towel dry each part as it comes out of the rinse and get yourself a spray can of CLP break free or G96 spray. Do Not apply the spray to bolt guts, firing pin channel, gas piston, inside gas cylinder, just ensure these are dry. The metal will be hot from the rinse so these parts will be moisture free with a quick towel dry. The rest of the parts, apply the spray of G96 or CLP and wipe down well. Grease as per Maple leaf eh's instructions above and yer good to go ;)
 
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