M-851 Remington + Pic Added

Lodi

Lodi

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Yes, Model 851.

I have a folder with a handwritten cover titled Remington Special Tools April 1963. The folder contains copies of factory blueprints of gunsmithing tools for their shop, well done, professional and with a Remington Arms Company header.

The tool description states Model-851, Part-Receiver Assembly 16 & 20 GA, Tool-Adjusting Support, Operation- Adjust Carrier Latch At Ass'y.
The date Drawn is 3-22-49 and my version was Redrawn 12-21-61.

I have never heard of this model, though the dates kinda coincide with the 48 Mohawk and 11-48's. I'm guessing there was a change in the model designation, but the 851 was kept in the 1961 redraw.

Has anyone information on a Model 851?

M851-Pic 1.jpg
 

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Been around remingtons since 65 in fact the old man was gun smithing with a shop then and I have touched and owned a ton of them but have never heard of that model
M851 was a handgun to me and not remington
 
Yeah, I've been around a lot of the old stuff but never heard of this model. I can't even find a reference in the usual sources. The other tools listed are for various models in about the same age group. These copies seem to be 'Xerox' copies, which dates it again.
 
It likely not a reference to a model of gun but something to do with the tools themselves.
I to have been around remington did warranty work from 1975 ish 93ish spoke often directly to staff never have I seen or even herd of it .
 
It's listed for Model 851, other drawings under Model designations are 870, 760, 550, M/58, 721, 740-760, 552, 572 etc. etc, so 851 seems to be the model of the firearm and not the tool. As a blueprint it includes Drawing No., Part Drawing No., also Checked, Traced and Approved by dates and initials.
 
Lodi said:
It's listed for Model 851, other drawings under Model designations are 870, 760, 550, M/58, 721, 740-760, 552, 572 etc. etc, so 851 seems to be the model of the firearm and not the tool. As a blueprint it includes Drawing No., Part Drawing No., also Checked, Traced and Approved by dates and initials.
Click to expand...

can you post a pic
 
The blue print tells you what it is . A model 851 adjusting support for 16ga and 20 ga . I don't see any firearm models referenced on the drawing.
 
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the model designation is used for models of firearms.
 
Lodi said:
Yes, Model 851.

I have a folder with a handwritten cover titled Remington Special Tools April 1963. The folder contains copies of factory blueprints of gunsmithing tools for their shop, well done, professional and with a Remington Arms Company header.

The tool description states Model-851, Part-Receiver Assembly 16 & 20 GA, Tool-Adjusting Support, Operation- Adjust Carrier Latch As oputlined in the drawing
The date Drawn is 3-22-49 and my version was Redrawn 12-21-61.

I have never heard of this model, though the dates kinda coincide with the 48 Mohawk and 11-48's. I'm guessing there was a change in the model designation, but the 851 was kept in the 1961 redraw.

Has anyone information on a Model 851?

View attachment 552945
Click to expand...

The drawing is not a part for a model 851 shotgun but for a model 851 tool that is used on remington 20 and 16ga receivers ( all models ) to adjust the latch on the assembly line as outlined thus the fiber pad to prevent damage to the actual gun it is used on
My guess on the redraw having worked in an engineering dept for 20 years with a drafting staff prior to auto cad was more than likely due to the tool still being produced and needed for production and the original drawing fading away from age and had to be redrawn so they could still be read and manufactured properly. That is why you found it in a tool folder. You can also see the revision where it was altered to be used on 12ga receiver also
Cheers
 
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3macs1 said:
The drawing is not a part for a model 851 shotgun but for a model 851 tool ...
Click to expand...

That does not seem to jive with all the other prints, that would mean there are numerous tools that are quite different but have the same model number. I'm out of space to load more pics.
 
Lodi said:
That does not seem to jive with all the other prints, that would mean there are numerous tools that are quite different but have the same model number. I'm out of space to load more pics.
Click to expand...

They are done by humans and not uncommon to see things like this especially that far back on blue prints. One mistake in one box or this tool being universal for all models how would they fill the box out then . What model would they put there?? I would say the tool model in this case was intentional to prevent confusion
There is like 200 years of remington experience here some that have fixed them for years that has chimed in and if no one has ever heard of such a model I am 100% sure it never existed
That drawing is for a special tool model not a shotgun
Look at another drawing if you have one that the tool was used on ALL models what does it say on the box on another
 
I understand the gun was not manufactured as a M851. I also understand the uniformity, but I have drawings for 4 different tools listed as Model 58, another 4 as Model 870, 3 as Model 550 etc. etc..

So you're saying it's a fact Remington used this redundancy, or is this just an educated guess?
 
Lodi said:
I understand the gun was not manufactured as a M851. I also understand the uniformity, but I have drawings for 4 different tools listed as Model 58, another 4 as Model 870, 3 as Model 550 etc. etc..

So you're saying it's a fact Remington used this redundancy, or is this just an educated guess?
Click to expand...

There is no gun this drawing was ever used to produce a part for regardless of model.
On the other drawings Yes they put a known model in that box ( since that was all that tool it was used for ) but you have no more drawings of a universal tool like this one that was used on them all every shotgun model with a feed latch thus the 851 in the box in this case do you. That is what you need to prove 100% what we are saying
Pretty simple if you don't believe us
Look at every shotgun they produced up to 61 and they don't start as one model in a design then a drawing and finish as another model in production. My god the confusion that would cause
Jesus could not answer that in 2022 but it sure looks that way to me
 
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I am having trouble following your entire reply, so bear with me.

3macs1 said:
There is no gun this drawing was ever used to produce a part for regardless of model.
Click to expand...

So this tool, was never used on a production, experimental or prototype model?

3macs1 said:
On the other drawings Yes they put a known model in that box ( since that was all that tool it was used for ) but you have no more drawings of a universal tool like this one that was used on them all every shotgun model with a feed latch thus the 851 in the box in this case do you.
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This is kind of an all encompassing statement, a universal tool for all models of shotguns with a feed latch. for effect you could have added in 'On the day of the first full moon after the winter equinox' to cover all the bases.

3macs1 said:
That is what you need to prove 100% what we are saying
Click to expand...

So I need to provide a drawing in order to prove what you are saying, 100%. So if I don't provide said drawing , then by default you are wrong!?


3macs1 said:
Pretty simple if you don't believe us Look at every shotgun they produced up to 61 and they don't start as one model in a design then a drawing and finish as another model in production. My god the confusion that would cause Jesus could not answer that in 2022 but it sure looks that way to me
Click to expand...

Seems a bold statement. I would think that any new project would be given a name, and as evolution of the program continued that the designation may change. Once production started things might stay the same, but many of us know about that designation change of the .244 to 6mm by that company Remington.

~~~

And yes, I did notice you didn't answer my question.
 
Lodi said:
I am having trouble following your entire reply, so bear with me.


Cannot make it any more simpler

So this tool, was never used on a production, experimental or prototype model?

Sure it was many times I would say. You don't5 go back and redraw something not being used

This is kind of an all encompassing statement, a universal tool for all models of shotguns with a feed latch. for effect you could have added in 'On the day of the first full moon after the winter equinox' to cover all the bases.

what ever

So I need to provide a drawing in order to prove what you are saying, 100%. So if I don't provide said drawing , then by default you are wrong!?


Yes if you haver another drawing for a universal tool likle this and it has a strange number in the model box then we know 100% how remington was filling out the drawings

Seems a bold statement. I would think that any new project would be given a name, and as evolution of the program continued that the designation may change. Once production started things might stay the same, but many of us know about that designation change of the .244 to 6mm by that company Remington.
Only sharing how things were done in engineering depts WHERE I worked in those days vs what you THINK as you say
~~~

And yes, I did notice you didn't answer my question.
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I answered to the best of my ability. Call remington. I would say this tool was made many many times and used on every shotgun that need a latch properly set on the assembly line
Only sharing my 20 years working in design in an engineering dept and working with draftsmen and manufacturing shops when I worked with and approved many old drawings like this and seen how they logged them. The 244 and 6mm is not relevant here and you have no idea how they logged that from a drawing perspective

In the end it is an old useless drawing with no value so why the big huff about it .
Call remington and I bet they will know nothing
 
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