M&P 9mm and IDPA

Silverback said:
If you are really worried Brownells sells complete striker assemblies, see below.
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Thanks for the tip. Brownells had been backordered for over three months. ;)

Canuck44 said:
Wendall the sky isn't falling. I have over 3,000 rds through mine and the striker has yet to break. The first guns made had problems with a bad batch of strikers but striker failure is rare now in these guns, certainly nor more that any other striker fired gun. You had/have a bad experience. A lot haven't. Take Care Bob
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Funny that you say that Bob, because a guy on another forum has advocated routine replacement of both strikers and recoil assemblies in the M&P9 to avoid the real threat of failure "in a match". That guy suggested changing the striker at the 5000 mark - to avoid failures. Now it's great this guy apparently has spare strikers and all, but I don't, Brownells didn't, M.D. Charlton doesn't, and the original poster doesn't.

How anyone - knowing of this unresolved M&P9 striker failure issue and knowing of the shortage of replacement strikers - could recommend to an unsuspecting new person that the M&P is a good choice among the many viable (and reliable, and well-supported) pistols out there is beyond me.

The M&P9 is a viable pistol, for sure. P.S.: Don't buy one without a spare striker.
 
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Onagoth said:
Its not just that scenario, its also an extremely annoying extra step when finishing a course of fire, IMO anyways.

Everything about a magazine disconnect just seems stupid to me. I'm not really knocking the gun, just that "feature" specifically.
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There is no extra step with an M&P with a mag disconnect. You unload, show clear, you lower the slide and insert a magazine and pull the trigger to hammer down. Simple. It doesn't have to be an empty mag either. The gun can't load itself.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
There is no extra step with an M&P with a mag disconnect. You unload, show clear, you lower the slide and insert a magazine and pull the trigger to hammer down. Simple. It doesn't have to be an empty mag either. The gun can't load itself.

Take Care

Bob
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That would be the extra step.
 
Wendell said:
Funny that you say that Bob, because a guy on another forum (who happens to go by your handle) has advocated routine replacement of both strikers and recoil assemblies in the M&P9 to avoid the real threat of failure "in a match". That guy suggested changing the striker at the 6000 mark - to avoid failures. Now it's great that you (and that other guy) apparently have spare strikers and all, but I don't, Brownells doesn't, M.D. Charlton doesn't, and the original poster doesn't.
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I don't know who that person is. I certainly have never posted that. Heck I don't even know how to replace the striker thing. No, I don't have a spare striker, sorry. If it breaks I have six or seven other guns I can use.

Take Care

Bob
 
Stevo said:
That would be the extra step.
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A very small step indeed. The mag disconnect is there for the LEO's which is the guns major market. Some jurisdictions I am told insist on it. While the rule book says you cannot disconnect a safety device our SO's aren't gunsmiths nor are they expected to know what every gun has or dosen't have or what they came with. I'll leave it at that. Something abvout see no evil. speak no evil comes to mind.

Take Care

Bob
 
I was wrong. Sorry for the sarcasm.
If you are carrying the pistol for self defence, I would make a habit of replacing the striker at 50% of service interval (ie 10,000 rounds) as well as performing all other required cleaning and maintenance more often then recomended, but then I change all of the springs in my 1911's at 3,500 - 4,000 rounds, changed my M&P9's recoil spring at 4,000 and am ready to change it again, have a spare striker ready to go - and I don't own a gun that I'm allowed to defend myself with, but I've never lost a shooting match due to equipment failure. Isn't your life worth the small cost of maintenance? My matches are.
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Yeah, I'm a little wound up over this striker issue.

:redface:

By the time all these strikers arrive, I probably won't remember why I ordered them.
 
Insert mag

I am not sure I think that inserting a magazine with ammunition in it with the intent to show clear is a safe practice in the first place to be honest. It might sound good but I am thinking very bad idea.

As well after seeing some M&P's on the line, I would look at some different pistols.

Greg
 
Thanks for all the input! Well like I said, I am getting a deal on it from my friend, so in all honesty if it wasn't for the price I would stick with milsurps and forgo pistols all together. I have been interested in IDPA and this seems like the perfect chance to try it out.

What's the worst that could happen? I don't like it so I sell it? If a striker breaks I can wait for one to arrive whenever that happens too.

As for the mag safety issue, I can't remember if it has that or not. But I am used to the mag safety on the Browning HP's so it's not a big deal if the M&P has one too. I was taught by crusty RCR Sgt's that loading a charged mag in to finish the unload drill was OK. That the pistol isn't going to load itself.
 
masterjack792 said:
ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE in IDPA; use either an empty mag, your finger, or if you can't reach, a Popsicle stick to trigger the mechanism.
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And yet the Canadian Director for IDPA says otherwise.


Canuck44 said:
There is no extra step with an M&P with a mag disconnect. You unload, show clear, you lower the slide and insert a magazine and pull the trigger to hammer down. Simple. It doesn't have to be an empty mag either. The gun can't load itself.

Take Care

Bob
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I think we need some clarification.
 
albertacoyotecaller said:
I am not sure I think that inserting a magazine with ammunition in it with the intent to show clear is a safe practice in the first place to be honest. It might sound good but I am thinking very bad idea.

As well after seeing some M&P's on the line, I would look at some different pistols.

Greg
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Greg this has been discussed at some length and the issue boils down to the mechanics of the gun. On the unload command the mag is dropped, the slide racked and inspected and then closed, all while the gun is facing down range. To drop the "hammer" whether you insert a loaded magazine, an empty one or a piece of wood the gun is not capable of loading itself and when the "hammer falls while the gun is facing down range their is no safety issue. In short the practice is perfectly safe.

What isn't discussed nearly enough is a major issue with safe action pistols such as the Glock & M&P. SO's have to be mindful and watch for loose shirts around the holster area. Inserting a loaded gun into a holster when part of the shirtail is out could result in an AD IF the shirt catches the trigger. With certain body types it can be a real concern. This isn't nearly a concern with IPSC shooters with DOH's but IDPA holsters by rule have to be much closer to the body.

Take Care

Bob
 
"Safe-action" pistols are no more of a issue for SO's than single action guns that can have their safeties wiped off by clothing or not applied at all.

DAO/DA guns can also be a "hazard" around clothing/belts/fingers, though not as much as SA or striker guns.
 
masterjack792 said:
ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE in IDPA; use either an empty mag, your finger, or if you can't reach, a Popsicle stick to trigger the mechanism.
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See my post above. I would be interested to learn how a gun with the slide closed can somehow load itself without the slide racking. Once the striker is released the mag is withdrawn and the gun holstered. Note all this is done with the gun facing downrange.

dinsdale I probably , no certainly was being a bit flippant when I saidwhat I said. I don't view sticking a mag (Loaded or unloade, a stick, a finger or god knows what) to be much of an additional step. The exercise is to ensure the chamber is empty. Dropping the hammer/striker satisfies this requirement.

If your club or range considers this to be a major safety issue and insists on either an empty mag or wooden device be inserted then go with the local requirement. We all should remember to it is the SO's call. If the SO asks you to insert an empty mag then do so.

Stevo As you know the removal of a safety device becomes an issue, particularly in the US, if someone gets injured and the firearm involved has had safety devices removed or disabled. Hence the rule. The problem becomes what consitutes a safety device, how do you determine if the model you are inspecting isn't one in which a particular model was made without the device installed.

Two examples come to mind the FN High Power with its mag stop attached to the trigger and the M&P. Both guns were/are made with and without the "safety devices". Others include the SP-01/Shadow variants. HQ has already ruled that IF CZ-USA removes the FPB on a SP-01 then it is legal to shoot in IDPA yet if your local gunsmith does the work the gun is not legal. Shooters who do remove such devices run the risk that an MD will inspect the gun and will apply the rule. Pinning the grip safety on a 1911 is rather obvious and is likely going to be noticed and caught if the shoot involves a chrono test so I wouldn't suggest doing it.

Removal of any safety device on any gun is grounds for a DQ. Guide yourself accordingly. For the SO's, follow a suggestion from HQ, if in doubt, ask the shooter if he removed the safety device.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Stevo said:
"Safe-action" pistols are no more of a issue for SO's than single action guns that can have their safeties wiped off by clothing or not applied at all.

DAO/DA guns can also be a "hazard" around clothing/belts/fingers, though not as much as SA or striker guns.
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Well yes and know. As you know I shoot both. Once the safety has been applied on guns with manual safeties it would take two things to occur:

1. The safety would have to be disengaged while holstering and then the shirt catch the trigger.

In the case of my M&P and your Glock all it takes is the shirt to catch the trigger. Believe me Steve I have seen enough examples of shooters coming to the line with shirts overhanging the holster to see this is something our SO's should watch for. If we do, we can reduce the risk of an AD simply by asking the shooter to tuck in his shirt. I think you would agree it is a courtesy worth extending.

Take Care

Bob
 
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