M&P Slide Release - A problem for IPSC

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IDPA has nothing to do with this - again, the topic at hand is IPSC.

I'll challenge you to show me a recent result in the last 5 years from a major match that any of them competed in, then I'll be shocked.
If you can find such a thing, and any of them got a 70% or more in the division they chose; I'll be doubly shocked.


Hold on, this is sounding like age discrimination, where does it say that only the last five years count? Seriously though, not many people would turn down golf lessons with Jack Nicklaus or hockey training with Wayne Gretzky, and it's been a lot more than five years since they won anything... just sayin.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY...

Do you guys have the STI sporting rifles back in stock yet? I want to go to a dedicated 3 gun rifle, and those seem like a pretty good value. I would appreciate your thoughts on them. Cheers.
 
Hold on, this is sounding like age discrimination, where does it say that only the last five years count? Seriously though, not many people would turn down golf lessons with Jack Nicklaus or hockey training with Wayne Gretzky, and it's been a lot more than five years since they won anything... just sayin.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY...

Do you guys have the STI sporting rifles back in stock yet? I want to go to a dedicated 3 gun rifle, and those seem like a pretty good value. I would appreciate your thoughts on them. Cheers.

LOL!!! Yessir, we have lots of STI rifles back in stock - thanks for asking, but it would be wrong to go off topic on them here.
I'll make a post on them in our forum.

No age discrimination here - but nobody can argue that IPSC today and IPSC 20+ years (Back when I started) has changed considerably, especially in the world of techniques. The current lot of instructors are just that; current with the sport. I'm not going to go find Jack Nicklaus to get training on golf when I can get Bubba Watson and if Sidney Crosby is available for instruction; the only reason I'm calling Wayne is to get a new instragram photo of his hot daughter.
 
LOL!!! Yessir, we have lots of STI rifles back in stock - thanks for asking, but it would be wrong to go off topic on them here.
I'll make a post on them in our forum.

No age discrimination here - but nobody can argue that IPSC today and IPSC 20+ years (Back when I started) has changed considerably, especially in the world of techniques. The current lot of instructors are just that; current with the sport. I'm not going to go find Jack Nicklaus to get training on golf when I can get Bubba Watson and if Sidney Crosby is available for instruction; the only reason I'm calling Wayne is to get a new instragram photo of his hot daughter.

That would be fantastic, thank you. I can't make any comments about Wayne's daughter now that my own daughter has turned 18 (ouch)...
 
I can assure you that I have more than enough experience and training on the topic to offer my opinion. If you want to nit pick, yes, you're right. Anything done with the hands is a "Fine Motor Skill" by definition. But the act of operating a small lever with a single digit, vs operating the whole slide with your whole hand is a Fine vs Gross movement when it comes to pistol handling. I certainly didn't say it wasn't possible to operate the slide stop under stress, I said the chances of making a mistake with that movement, rate higher than if you grab the slide and work the action.

Your argument of mag release and trigger operation degrading under stress actually validates my point... If you have the experience that you say you do, you'll agree with me what once someone is put under stress, their shooting and pistol handling suffers. Their groupings open up and they're reloads start to get rushed and sloppy.

I don't train for a world of targets and timers. At the end of the day all pistol manipulations should be done using techniques with the highest rate of success. In my 1000+ hours of range time, the over hand slide manipulation is what I train for and it has never failed me.

If you've trained yourself to a level where you're confident in your tactics, then that's fine. But for the average shooter, I don't think it's the right way to go.

Differing opinions make the world go round. I'm not offended by yours, and I don't expect you to get your back up over mine.

Every time I read a post like this I think of my friend from Kitimat who filled his hand with brass using the over hand method. Hand slipped a bit the slide went forward sooner than it should have while the round was on the way out of gun causing the cartridge to hit his hand and return to the chamber, the ejector hit the primer and we had an out of battery ignition. He now uses the slide release, faster and SAFER - forget Slavex, Bob Vogel says the slide release is faster in his video but then what does Vogel know about shooting..., but definitely not tacticool and what would the tacticool crowd have to talk about over coffee with their instructors. What you should learn over time is no matter how much we shoot., take courses, watch videos and dry fire sometimes bad things happen. About all we can do is try to reduce the likelihood of something bad happening. Your over hand method increases the risk of something going wrong and is definitely slower. In your world of gunfights which you train for faster is always mo betta!

IPSC is one of the most demanding shooting activities on the planet and if Vogel, Hansen and even Eng can manage the slide release under the stress of competition they are under us cellar dwellers can too. Hell Eng needs two hands to drink his coffee Saturday mornings and he can even hit the slide release when he has to.:>).

Take Care

Bob
 
Going back to the thread title and primary question; these guys do not shoot IPSC.
Wouldn't more appropriate references be Max Michel, Eric Grauffel, Manny Bragg, Travis Tomasie, Phil Strader, Saul Kirsch, Chris Tilley, Ben Stoeger, Mike Voight and Frank Garcia?
:cheers:

To my (again limited) knowledge, the one school of any type of shooting that teaches the exclusive use of the over hand slide manipulation isn't a school for the instruction of IPSC competition either and I don't think James has shot a major match lately either.
 
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Hey I outshot Bob on a stage in Norway
Evidence,



Beat him on both time and points if I remember right. I was the stage winner, that much I'm sure of. Now the fact that I was 8th overall to Bob being number 1 overall, well, never mind that...
 
IPSC match, we don't keep track that way, but it wasn't a huge spread from 1st to 8th, well not that much, I think 15% or something. I was mostly happy with how I shot against him. Errors on my part were far more responsible for my finish than being totally overwhelmed by him. But, I also know he wasn't going balls out like he did at the Worlds. I certainly surprised him on that stage I won and he put the hammer down pretty good after that.
 
To my (again limited) knowledge, the one school of any type of shooting that teaches the exclusive use of the over hand slide manipulation isn't a school for the instruction of IPSC competition either and I don't think James has shot a major match lately either.
So I think we agree! :D
 
IPSC match, we don't keep track that way, but it wasn't a huge spread from 1st to 8th, well not that much, I think 15% or something. I was mostly happy with how I shot against him. Errors on my part were far more responsible for my finish than being totally overwhelmed by him. But, I also know he wasn't going balls out like he did at the Worlds. I certainly surprised him on that stage I won and he put the hammer down pretty good after that.

Hey Rob you only have to do it once to say you did it. I am willing to bet not many can say they beat Vogel on a stage. You might be the only one in Canada!

Take Care

Bob
 
Eric wins stages all the time, just go look at match results and see. Back when shot Open all the time, he may have won less of them, but he stayed high up on the rest of them to get the overall. I've heard the same thing that he just sits in the top 5 spots and takes the overall, but in all the matches I've been to where he's at, or if I've looked up others, that's just not the case.

And yes Bob uses the slide stop if he needs to. So does Eric strangely enough, and Dave, and probably Ben too.
 
I cant see how someone thinks a tap-rack drill is faster than the slide release?

If you inadvertently shoot to lack-back in IPSC its much faster to insert a new mag press the slide the slide release with you stong hand thumb, if you can reach it, or weak hand as you present the pistol to the target. You can do that even while acquiring the front sight, something you cannot do with a tap-rack.

Secondly, finding the pressing the slide release should be no more challenging that learning to manipulate the safety under speed/stress and should be much easier than learning to work around the trigger reset under speed.

Lastly, there are many ways to skin a cat. In IPSC/IDPA match if you know you have shot to lock back the slide release will be faster. If you suspect malfunction then go to a clearing drill. This talk of 'always tap-rack, the only way' etc is fallible. Why rely dogmatically on one way alone?
 
For those who cross over it is virtually always better to shoot to slide lock in IDPA and using the slide release can save you seconds over the course of a match.

Take Care

Bob
 
That is what I am noticing as well. Seems to not function more often than does function when I "slam" a loaded magazine in when the slide locked backwards from emptying a mag.

Did a little reloading practice since I last posted. Seems I can consistently get the slide release to work, but ONLY if I slam the #### out of the magazine. Way harder than I feel is reasonable. In fact, after practicing between slamming it hard enough to activate the release, and loading the magazine hard enough to seat it, but not worry about having to slam it in, and then using my thumb to activate the slide release, I found that using the slide release worked faster and definitely more consistently than slamming the mag in.

However this is just me with my M&P, your mileage may vary so to speak.
 
Did a little reloading practice since I last posted. Seems I can consistently get the slide release to work, but ONLY if I slam the #### out of the magazine. Way harder than I feel is reasonable. In fact, after practicing between slamming it hard enough to activate the release, and loading the magazine hard enough to seat it, but not worry about having to slam it in, and then using my thumb to activate the slide release, I found that using the slide release worked faster and definitely more consistently than slamming the mag in.

However this is just me with my M&P, your mileage may vary so to speak.

Do you use dummies/snap caps when practising your slide lock reloads?
 
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