M1 Garand Experts Please Help

joe n

joe n

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EDIT....Thank you everyone who gave me their expertise, I honestly believe after reviewing the facts, that these markings are correct and authentic, as the majority have stated here and elsewhere. However I continue to learn alot from the members here, thank you once again......I have a late November 1941 Springfield Armoury M1 Garand. A member here has seen pics of it, and I believe he is very knowledgeable on US weaponry. He believes or has been told that the cartouches on the M1 are faked. I am no expert at all on these, but this is what I know. I know where this rifle has been for the last approximately 15 years, as it sat unregistered after being bought at a Bud Haynes auction in the early 1990's. It has been with one owner since, and although there is no guarantee what the previous owner may have done, I do trust him. Back 15 years ago when Garands were $199 each, did the technology (stamp and hammer) exist to fake the cartouches?
So, does this look fake to you M1 experts? I know milsurps, but sadly not Garands. The finish and wear look authentic to me for a 60 year old rifle. I believe the cartouches are authentic. Please give me your honest opinions here. I know it is difficult to tell from a few pics, but it's the best I can do at the moment. Thank you all for looking!
Joe
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The stamps to 'refresh' old cartouches are a fairly recent arrival. Any serious collector will recoil in horror at the suggestion of fakery creeping into their beloved pastime. No serious gun person would want to have any association with a faked gun or the tools to do it. There are scientific ways of aging newly impressed wood, but those don't fresh squeezed to me.

Lever Arms had Garands for $150 in the late 1990's. There were all Danish war stocks that were sold, perhaps a bit too fast in a deal that embarrassed the Danes - but made Garand collectors happy. If your stock has a serial number on the underside, it came from the Jutland peninsula. That was their rack accounting system. Their rifles were all WWII or Italian contract buys. There may have been 1950's parts, but I don't think there were any 1950's US makers.
 
The GHS cartouche was used at Springfield Armory on newly manufactured Garands from approx s/n 75,### to s/n 70x,### during the tenure of BG Gilbert H. Stewart as CO of the armory from 13 Sep 38 -10 Jun 42(Source The M1 Garand WWII by Scott A. Duff).If your rifle s/n falls in this range,the GHS cartouche would be correct for it. Fake cartouches have become a growth industry in recent years as people try to enhance the value of their rifles by finding (or faking) the correctly cartouched stocks for them.The Ordnance stamp beside the cartouche is the large style which is associated with the GHS cartouche.I'd like to see a pic of more of the stock,but the wear and handling patina on the stampings and surrounding wood persuade me that this is an original stock.The fact that you know and trust where the rifle has been for the past 15 yrs also argues against the possibility of fakery.Does the stock show any other stampings/markings?
 
Thank you Gentlemen for your help. I have several pics available and will attempt to load up more. I really appreciate the help. I have quite a few books on Garands but nothing beats the advice of those who have personally handled the originals. There are absolutely no other markings on the stock, other than the "P" on the bottom. Milsurps being humped up as they are really wants me to just walk away some days.....thank you all onec again.
Joe:)

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15 years ago the values weren't high enough to bother restamping. M1's in far better condition(like your's) than some(most really) you see these days were far more available too. Mind you, $200 was more money then, but there really was no market for restamped rifles.
 
That is kind of what I figured. I don't blame anyone for second-guessing in today's humped market though...I do alot of second guessing. Thanks again Gentlemen.
sunray said:
15 years ago the values weren't high enough to bother restamping. M1's in far better condition(like your's) than some(most really) you see these days were far more available too. Mind you, $200 was more money then, but there really was no market for restamped rifles.
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"...I don't blame anyone for..." Yep. It's far more prevalent Stateside than it is here. Especially on the U.S. auction sites. It's the same idea as a guy tracking down all the parts from the receiver's manufacturer and saying it's original. The funniest example of that are guys doing it to an M1 Carbine. None of the original makers made all the parts.
The worst of it is that Gunparts is selling the re-made stamps.
 
I worked on the m1 garand rifles that lever arms bought from the danes. your gun stock does look original. there were many m1's with un-numbered rifle stocks. I bought many of them, which I still have. your gun also looks original by color.
 
Well, I'm just a country boy when it comes to looking at stamps off U.S. rifles, but based upon the very close up pics of the wood grain, and the way the stamp edges get cut under by the aged wood marks, the markings appear contemporary to me.

Just my two cents... :)

Regards,
Badger
 
I just receieved an email from Bruce Canfield who gave it a thumbs up, so good enough for me. Thanks for the help Gentlemen!
 
joe n said:
I just receieved an email from Bruce Canfield who gave it a thumbs up, so good enough for me. Thanks for the help Gentlemen!
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You have the answer from one of the best known US military small arms collectors. He wrote the book, and keeps writing more. Keep that email with the rifle as, 'in your face' ammunition to any low-ballers.

One of Canfield's expressions I like is, buy the rifle not the story.
 
Thank you, that is great advice. I am grateful for the expertise and advice here, Gentlemen. Have a great day:)
maple_leaf_eh said:
You have the answer from one of the best known US military small arms collectors. He wrote the book, and keeps writing more. Keep that email with the rifle as, 'in your face' ammunition to any low-ballers.

One of Canfield's expressions I like is, buy the rifle not the story.
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