Well I decided to post this thread due to the sharp increase in Garand questions due to the new influx of stripped receivers. Theres a great sticky in the milsurps section that covers a lot of info but its a long read and the current market needs to be reflected on. You should read it anyway in case you haven't. I've been tossing a few key ideas in my head for about a week now that i wanted to get to Garand newbies so hopefully this can be helpful and help you guys spend your money a little more wisely and not get discouraged. There are some pitfalls and some parts alternatives to be considered.
1. All Garand parts from the 30s to the 50s are interchangeable regardless of year or maker and will work on any rifle. Except for the Gas trap parts specific to the gas system and barrel. I only mention this because its been asked in messages I have received and it should be cleared up. Be aware that you are not going to find gas trap parts but if you do Id be surprised, so feel confident that the stuff thats out there is likely what will fit.
2. Not all barrels are created equally and this should be obvious. There are many many manufactures of barrels spanning original production to current production aftermarket. Some barrels are in 30.06 some are .308. Some are standard length and some are shorter by half inch. The vast majority of barrels will be standard length and in 30.06. You can get match barrels or you can even find New old stock barrels from the 50s. Used ones are good if the throat erosion, muzzle wear and rifling wear is low (again obvious). The Danish VAR barrel from the 50s and maybe into the 60s are considered high quality and should be on your list of used ones to look for. They are not rare in canada and can be usually found in great condition. If you cant find one buy a Krieger, Criterion barrel or similar. There are also machined down 2 groove 1903 barrels that were sleeved into worn garand barrel stubs and machined to look original (i consider this bad) best to research that one yourself. This could be a thread on its own so I'll stop here.
3. Old beat up stocks are just fine and were made to fit and for the most part the ones that are out there are great for functionality. Boyds stocks are nice but require finishing to fit and some folks are not good with wood working and might want to avoid that route.
4. Your front handguard is supposed to be loose!. Don't tighten it down or bend your lower band or shim it with bits of wood as its supposed to float a little so it doesn't put stress on the barrel. Its not broken so dont spend money trying to remedy a non problem. I've got a good collection of buggered lower bands I've taken off because of this.
5. There are oprods out there that were made in europe that look like they might fit but they don't. Not without machining, bending, hoping and praying. Some gunners out there have the skills and tools to tackle such a thing but your better off getting a US or Italian made oprod and just install it. The correct type will be marked as such HRA, IHC, WRA, SA, BMB. The piston will be silver soldered on and not welded and will measure a serviceable minimum of .525-.526. (.524 is worn) There will be 2 distinct bends, not one bend. The ones that don't really fit have welded on oversize pistons that will not fit into a gas cylinder at all. They also have one obvious bend with the second bend kind of achieved at the the oprod catch weld. From what I know they are not stamped with any ID marks and I personally would not use one. They may be good for a tanker conversion because of the angle at the catch. Patience will find you an oprod, they are out there being hoarded by folks like me.
6. Sourcing parts. It is tricky but at the same time simple. There are gobs of parts all over the globe and the trick is to find someone that can legally send them to you. Its a giant pain in the butt to get parts out of the US as we all know. The new $500 exemption may help but i really haven't seen that happen yet. Then there's parts that are restricted to send. There's so many businesses in the states that just aren't interested in doing business with us up here either cuz of the hassle or small market. That and its vastly more expensive than finding a private seller. Its tempting to go get your stuff from the states as there's tons of choice on ebay but typically its more expensive. Convenient but expensive. Ill tell you there's tons of stuff in Italy and Greece and the shipping from there is cheapola plus there are several eager sellers with access to good stuff thats cheaper than the states overall. One day that supply will dry up and maybe another will appear. The onus is on you to see if its legal to bring stuff from there or anywhere really.
7. Buy stuff you don't need if its bundled with something you do need. You can always trade or sell the stuff you don't want.
8. If you can get it in bulk/multiples do it. Same rule applies from above.
9. There are reproduction parts out there, but hey they work and might be what you need to go shooting. Just remember when you sell a reproduction part it becomes fake when you say its original.
10. Some m14 parts fit!. The rear sights although in metric are direct "bolt ons". Be aware the norinco sights are garbage and made of soft metal and there are tons of them out there. Quite often they are marked WCE and that was a US maker mark but unlikely too many legit ones are around. Id consider WCE marked sights chinese. They may be a decent place holder during your build. The hammer, hammer plunger, hammer spring, hammer pin, safety and trigger are also interchangeable. Ive seen lots of USGI m14 hammers cross my path so there some stuff out there that can be used. The bolt does not fit, the trigger housing is a no go either. Most other norc m14 trigger parts are unmarked (can anyone support that??)
11. Some BM59/BM62 parts fit. The rear sights are again a direct bolt on and are usually marked BM59 or have a white "S" on the windage knob. The Bolt internals are the same. The bolt itself is different underneath and i don't know if anyone has tried to use one but its made for a box mag and is machined differently. Trigger parts again are somewhat interchangeable. The BM59 trigger group was quite often made by machining surplus USGI garand trigger housings. I'll have to verify exactly what pieces those were but the bm59 was a modified Garand and the hammer, safety. trigger pin, hammer pin and trigger guard are on that list.
12. Italian parts are great. They are very very well made and are also the cheapest to get. Win win! They are marked PB, BMB, BMR and not difficult to find especially in europe. Mostly greece and Italy.
13. Aftermarket parts that are avail. Stocks, barrels, gas plugs, oprod and trigger springs
13. Heavy wearing parts. Those are the ones your going to want to be NOS are used excellent condition. Oprods, barrels, gas cylinders, follower, bullet guide, oprod spring. trigger guard, firing pin and extractor
14. Repairing or tweaking worn parts. You can use a .524 worn oprod with a tighter gas cylinder and probably have a great rifle. On the other side you can use a larger piston (say .526) with a worn gas cylinder. The oprod piston can be replaced if you can locate a piston. They were not made to be serviceable but its now a necessity and they are somewhat avail by some enterprising machinists. The bullet guide tip can be mushroomed slightly to repair timing issues as it interacts with the oprod catch accelerator and extend its service life (be careful). The Oprod spring can be stretched but this really doesn't work that well and really a new one is $20. Brass pins can be found at brownells to repair cracked stocks and why not. The elevation cap quite often wears out and doesn't click very well. With some patience and a jewelers file you can resurrect the click by bringing down the surface around the high point and then sharpening the high point to a point again. Also cleaning out the splines on the receiver help.
15. How parts are sold. NOS bolts came complete in the wrap and not stripped. If your being sold a NOS bolt thats stripped it started out life with all its parts and someone has most likely removed the parts to increase how many $$ they can get out of them all. The oprod catch was made with the accelerator and if they are being sold separately, again someone has done this to make more money. Same story with the trigger and sear. You just wind up spending more for the same thing and its more work to put it back together. Rear sight pinions are typically sold as assemblies with the cap, screw and shaft although in todays market sights are a little hard to come by sometimes. Followers were not assembled in the wrap but a used one should not have been taken apart. Im not saying its illegal to try and make money but it does speak to the culture of a company or the character of the individual doing the selling.
16. Original Garand accessories. There is lots of stuff that is out there for these. A vast majority of it not very useful for the average shooter and may be more interesting to collectors. The grenade launcher sight which comes in a pouch in late WW2 came with a gas plug when they were issued and a numbered disc that was screwed into the stock. Training rounds are sometimes avail and look like a bazooka round, again interesting only. The Bayonets that span approx 20 years from WW2 to the 60s and include USGI and danish versions which include fake USGI versions. This could be a thread itself too. WW2 Leather scabbards that were mounted on jeeps and the occasional horse are fairly common and might not be terribly useful nowadays due to hunting laws or the fact you don't want to wreck an antique or have your rifle getting wear marks on it. The cleaning kit and the combo tool are very useful and there are lots of them. The combo tool has a brush, bolt disassembly tool and gas plug tool. The cleaning kit had metal rods and is pretty harsh on the muzzle compared to modern aluminum rods. Both of these are stored in the buttstock. the little yellow grease pots seem to be everywhere. They are not rare and Ive picked them up for as little as .25 cents each, they also fit in the buttstock.
1. All Garand parts from the 30s to the 50s are interchangeable regardless of year or maker and will work on any rifle. Except for the Gas trap parts specific to the gas system and barrel. I only mention this because its been asked in messages I have received and it should be cleared up. Be aware that you are not going to find gas trap parts but if you do Id be surprised, so feel confident that the stuff thats out there is likely what will fit.
2. Not all barrels are created equally and this should be obvious. There are many many manufactures of barrels spanning original production to current production aftermarket. Some barrels are in 30.06 some are .308. Some are standard length and some are shorter by half inch. The vast majority of barrels will be standard length and in 30.06. You can get match barrels or you can even find New old stock barrels from the 50s. Used ones are good if the throat erosion, muzzle wear and rifling wear is low (again obvious). The Danish VAR barrel from the 50s and maybe into the 60s are considered high quality and should be on your list of used ones to look for. They are not rare in canada and can be usually found in great condition. If you cant find one buy a Krieger, Criterion barrel or similar. There are also machined down 2 groove 1903 barrels that were sleeved into worn garand barrel stubs and machined to look original (i consider this bad) best to research that one yourself. This could be a thread on its own so I'll stop here.
3. Old beat up stocks are just fine and were made to fit and for the most part the ones that are out there are great for functionality. Boyds stocks are nice but require finishing to fit and some folks are not good with wood working and might want to avoid that route.
4. Your front handguard is supposed to be loose!. Don't tighten it down or bend your lower band or shim it with bits of wood as its supposed to float a little so it doesn't put stress on the barrel. Its not broken so dont spend money trying to remedy a non problem. I've got a good collection of buggered lower bands I've taken off because of this.
5. There are oprods out there that were made in europe that look like they might fit but they don't. Not without machining, bending, hoping and praying. Some gunners out there have the skills and tools to tackle such a thing but your better off getting a US or Italian made oprod and just install it. The correct type will be marked as such HRA, IHC, WRA, SA, BMB. The piston will be silver soldered on and not welded and will measure a serviceable minimum of .525-.526. (.524 is worn) There will be 2 distinct bends, not one bend. The ones that don't really fit have welded on oversize pistons that will not fit into a gas cylinder at all. They also have one obvious bend with the second bend kind of achieved at the the oprod catch weld. From what I know they are not stamped with any ID marks and I personally would not use one. They may be good for a tanker conversion because of the angle at the catch. Patience will find you an oprod, they are out there being hoarded by folks like me.
6. Sourcing parts. It is tricky but at the same time simple. There are gobs of parts all over the globe and the trick is to find someone that can legally send them to you. Its a giant pain in the butt to get parts out of the US as we all know. The new $500 exemption may help but i really haven't seen that happen yet. Then there's parts that are restricted to send. There's so many businesses in the states that just aren't interested in doing business with us up here either cuz of the hassle or small market. That and its vastly more expensive than finding a private seller. Its tempting to go get your stuff from the states as there's tons of choice on ebay but typically its more expensive. Convenient but expensive. Ill tell you there's tons of stuff in Italy and Greece and the shipping from there is cheapola plus there are several eager sellers with access to good stuff thats cheaper than the states overall. One day that supply will dry up and maybe another will appear. The onus is on you to see if its legal to bring stuff from there or anywhere really.
7. Buy stuff you don't need if its bundled with something you do need. You can always trade or sell the stuff you don't want.
8. If you can get it in bulk/multiples do it. Same rule applies from above.
9. There are reproduction parts out there, but hey they work and might be what you need to go shooting. Just remember when you sell a reproduction part it becomes fake when you say its original.
10. Some m14 parts fit!. The rear sights although in metric are direct "bolt ons". Be aware the norinco sights are garbage and made of soft metal and there are tons of them out there. Quite often they are marked WCE and that was a US maker mark but unlikely too many legit ones are around. Id consider WCE marked sights chinese. They may be a decent place holder during your build. The hammer, hammer plunger, hammer spring, hammer pin, safety and trigger are also interchangeable. Ive seen lots of USGI m14 hammers cross my path so there some stuff out there that can be used. The bolt does not fit, the trigger housing is a no go either. Most other norc m14 trigger parts are unmarked (can anyone support that??)
11. Some BM59/BM62 parts fit. The rear sights are again a direct bolt on and are usually marked BM59 or have a white "S" on the windage knob. The Bolt internals are the same. The bolt itself is different underneath and i don't know if anyone has tried to use one but its made for a box mag and is machined differently. Trigger parts again are somewhat interchangeable. The BM59 trigger group was quite often made by machining surplus USGI garand trigger housings. I'll have to verify exactly what pieces those were but the bm59 was a modified Garand and the hammer, safety. trigger pin, hammer pin and trigger guard are on that list.
12. Italian parts are great. They are very very well made and are also the cheapest to get. Win win! They are marked PB, BMB, BMR and not difficult to find especially in europe. Mostly greece and Italy.
13. Aftermarket parts that are avail. Stocks, barrels, gas plugs, oprod and trigger springs
13. Heavy wearing parts. Those are the ones your going to want to be NOS are used excellent condition. Oprods, barrels, gas cylinders, follower, bullet guide, oprod spring. trigger guard, firing pin and extractor
14. Repairing or tweaking worn parts. You can use a .524 worn oprod with a tighter gas cylinder and probably have a great rifle. On the other side you can use a larger piston (say .526) with a worn gas cylinder. The oprod piston can be replaced if you can locate a piston. They were not made to be serviceable but its now a necessity and they are somewhat avail by some enterprising machinists. The bullet guide tip can be mushroomed slightly to repair timing issues as it interacts with the oprod catch accelerator and extend its service life (be careful). The Oprod spring can be stretched but this really doesn't work that well and really a new one is $20. Brass pins can be found at brownells to repair cracked stocks and why not. The elevation cap quite often wears out and doesn't click very well. With some patience and a jewelers file you can resurrect the click by bringing down the surface around the high point and then sharpening the high point to a point again. Also cleaning out the splines on the receiver help.
15. How parts are sold. NOS bolts came complete in the wrap and not stripped. If your being sold a NOS bolt thats stripped it started out life with all its parts and someone has most likely removed the parts to increase how many $$ they can get out of them all. The oprod catch was made with the accelerator and if they are being sold separately, again someone has done this to make more money. Same story with the trigger and sear. You just wind up spending more for the same thing and its more work to put it back together. Rear sight pinions are typically sold as assemblies with the cap, screw and shaft although in todays market sights are a little hard to come by sometimes. Followers were not assembled in the wrap but a used one should not have been taken apart. Im not saying its illegal to try and make money but it does speak to the culture of a company or the character of the individual doing the selling.
16. Original Garand accessories. There is lots of stuff that is out there for these. A vast majority of it not very useful for the average shooter and may be more interesting to collectors. The grenade launcher sight which comes in a pouch in late WW2 came with a gas plug when they were issued and a numbered disc that was screwed into the stock. Training rounds are sometimes avail and look like a bazooka round, again interesting only. The Bayonets that span approx 20 years from WW2 to the 60s and include USGI and danish versions which include fake USGI versions. This could be a thread itself too. WW2 Leather scabbards that were mounted on jeeps and the occasional horse are fairly common and might not be terribly useful nowadays due to hunting laws or the fact you don't want to wreck an antique or have your rifle getting wear marks on it. The cleaning kit and the combo tool are very useful and there are lots of them. The combo tool has a brush, bolt disassembly tool and gas plug tool. The cleaning kit had metal rods and is pretty harsh on the muzzle compared to modern aluminum rods. Both of these are stored in the buttstock. the little yellow grease pots seem to be everywhere. They are not rare and Ive picked them up for as little as .25 cents each, they also fit in the buttstock.
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