M14 and Reloader 15

diananike

diananike

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Hey everybody

I was working on some loads for my Polytech, and worked up to 44.5gr of reloader 15 behind a Hornady 150gr SP or SST, I've been using IVI brass.

This is a little less than the max-load of 46.3GR in deference to the op-rod and military brass.

I know the US military/ Salt lake uses RL15 in its 118LR load albeit with 43.1gr behind a 175grBT.

It is quite accurate doing about 2" @100yds.
The load seems to be a touch stiffer with kick and report than the stock surplus IVI.
I've heard that due to the thicker walls of IVI brass the pressure might go up, and I'm worried about damage to the op-rod or other internals.

Does anyone think this load is a liability with regards to my M14? In terms of pressure or pressure curve?
 
Should be just fine. RL15 is slower than IMR4064 and the 4895's, but faster than Varget and BL-C(2).
"...thicker walls of IVI brass..." Reduce the powder charge by 10%.
 
I would reduce the charge by 10% but that would be like a low-powered starting load. In fact that's exactly what I started with.
I mean 41.5 grains is pretty weak. Especially if Salt lake is using 43 in a heavy bullet load.


I read somewhere that IVI 7.62mm brass weighs only one grain more than a commercial Winchester case. Whereas Dominion surplus brass weighs about 10gr more.

Has anyone measured them for case capacity?

I'll give it a try but I might need to read up on how to do it.
 
Wow thanks for the info.

Maybe they were referring to Winchester Military contract cases in the other post I read, because the measuerments were in that range except the winchester one.

I'm going to weigh mine just to make sure.
 
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You don't need to go so far as to reduce powder charge by 10%. A more realistic rule of thumb is to reduce the charge by 10% of the difference in average weight between your military and commercial cases of choice. I once weighed some different cases and found that this rule is pretty consistent with the Lyman reloading manual's recommendation to reduce maximum charges by about 1-2 grains when using military brass.

With M1 Garands or M14 type rifles and 150 grain bullets, appropriate loads should be in the range of around 2700-2800 fps.
 
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I tend to shy away from slower burning powders that 4064. The standard "Match" load for M-14's is and has been 41 grains of 4064 under a 168 grain BTHP match bullet. I use the same load with a 155 BTHP match bullet and it works fine. Varget is not usually recommended for M-14's, it is just a wee little bit too slow. The problem is getting too much preasure at the gas port and bending stuff!!

Scott
 
m39a2 said:
The problem is getting too much preasure at the gas port and bending stuff!!

Scott
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I'm worried about!
I heard it was more an issue on the garand as the op-rod travel creates more torque in the longer 30-06.

I was thinking about picking up some 4895 but I had some RL15 I'd been using in my .303, and when I had so much success with it already......

I think I'm going to stick with the RL15 load,or maybe knock it back a little touch on the powder measure for insurance 44gr can't be too bad can it? I think it would be around 2700ish maybe a little more.
Man I need to get a Chrono, I've been reloading a lot lately.
 
It's not the ammount of powder or the speed of the bullet, it's the actual gas port preasure that causes the problem. A slower burning powder puts more gas or power at the gas port and at the wrong time of the preasure curve, it causes the bolt to actually open faster and move harder to the back of the reciever and can cause cracks. If you have one of those plastic buffer thingies in your rifle, take it out. It actually causes the bolt to be stopped by the op rod alone instead of the a combination of the op rod and the reciever. Too much stress on the opo rod....broken or cracked op rod.

4064 is my chosen powder because it is what has been used for more than 50 years in M1's and M-14's so I know it will work. The load I mentioned, 41 grains works well in my bolt guns as well as my auto's and that powder is still less expensive than some out there.

Scott
 
m39a2 said:
. If you have one of those plastic buffer thingies in your rifle, take it out. It actually causes the bolt to be stopped by the op rod alone instead of the a combination of the op rod and the reciever. Too much stress on the opo rod....broken or cracked op rod.

4064 is my chosen powder because it is what has been used for more than 50 years in M1's and M-14's so I know it will work. The load I mentioned, 41 grains works well in my bolt guns as well as my auto's and that powder is still less expensive than some out there.

Scott
Click to expand...
I appreciate your respect for 4064 it seems to get some pretty respectable speeds with 150s and it is somewhat faster burning than Reloader 15 so you get some more op-rod safety.



As for the Buffers, you just saved me from getting one, that was the next order of business!!
 
m39a2 said:
It's not the ammount of powder or the speed of the bullet, it's the actual gas port preasure that causes the problem. A slower burning powder puts more gas or power at the gas port and at the wrong time of the preasure curve, it causes the bolt to actually open faster and move harder to the back of the reciever and can cause cracks. If you have one of those plastic buffer thingies in your rifle, take it out. It actually causes the bolt to be stopped by the op rod alone instead of the a combination of the op rod and the reciever. Too much stress on the opo rod....broken or cracked op rod.

4064 is my chosen powder because it is what has been used for more than 50 years in M1's and M-14's so I know it will work. The load I mentioned, 41 grains works well in my bolt guns as well as my auto's and that powder is still less expensive than some out there.

Scott
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info :)
 
"...brass weighs only one grain..." It's not the weight. It's the case capacity.
"...shy away from slower burning powders that(SIC) 4064..." Like BLC-2? Long used by M1A, etc, shooters. Prefer IMR4064 myself though.
 
Cool. I think I'll use these reloads of 15 in my Remington, and give some to my buddy for his Savage. I can burn through the rest of the can in no time with my .303.

Then go get either some 4895 or 4064 and then back to the drawing board.....
 
"...brass weighs only one grain..." It's not the weight. It's the case capacity.
Click to expand...

If you have two cases with identical exterior dimensions and made of the same material, and one weighs more than the other, this will directly affect what value? Hint: brass has a density of about 8.4-8.7 times that of water.

Cartridges of the World lists a specification for 7.62 NATO ball that calls for 46 grains of WC846. BL-C(2) is more or less a cannister grade version of this powder, so that should give you some rough idea what sort of charge weight will approximate 7.62 NATO performance using military brass and around 150 grain bullets with that powder.
 
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m39a2 said:
It's not the ammount of powder or the speed of the bullet, it's the actual gas port preasure that causes the problem. A slower burning powder puts more gas or power at the gas port and at the wrong time of the preasure curve, it causes the bolt to actually open faster and move harder to the back of the reciever and can cause cracks. If you have one of those plastic buffer thingies in your rifle, take it out. It actually causes the bolt to be stopped by the op rod alone instead of the a combination of the op rod and the reciever. Too much stress on the opo rod....broken or cracked op rod.

4064 is my chosen powder because it is what has been used for more than 50 years in M1's and M-14's so I know it will work. The load I mentioned, 41 grains works well in my bolt guns as well as my auto's and that powder is still less expensive than some out there.

Scott
Click to expand...

That is interesting to hear. I had one in my last Nork and was going to put one in the one I just got and now I think that I won't. Thanks Scott:cool:
 
Win 748

I used 4064 with my loads initially and then spied a load with Sierra using 150 gr pills with 748.

I experimented with that powder using CCI 250 primers. I then switched to 150 gr Hornady SST's and believe that I have a really fine recipe with 45.3 - 45.5 gr Win 748. The average (benchrest) groupings are the same for this range. Lower or greater than those values, and the groups start to widen in my rifle. Also, very little powder residue/sawdust in the barrel after day of shooting. Seems to be very efficient in that regard. In terms of kick, Remington factory seems to have more wallop than the Win factory or my loads. My loads seem to be lightest, but that could be biase too.
 
IMR 4895 was the MILSPEC propellant for the 7.62. There is a saying that if your .308/7.62 won't shoot well with IMR4895, then you have a rifle problem.

Any of the following are also within the correct burning rate for the M14 and it is worth some experimentation with them; W748, BLC2, IMR4064, and IMR 3031, which always came out a bit ahead in my HRA M14.
 
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