M14 as first rifle?

[Starscream]

If you can't afford the $200. - $350. cost of a Ruger 10/22 (in addition to another centerfire rifle) then it's time for you to face the fact that you can't afford to shoot a centerfire rifle.

If you can't afford to shoot you can't learn to shoot.

If you are as broke as you suggest, forget any centrefire and - once you have completed your CFSC, reached the age of majority, and obtained your PAL - buy any .22LR rifle first.

At least, with a .22LR, you'll be able to afford to shoot.

K?

Sadly Wendell's quite right about this. Even at $0.50 a round (reloading) of 308 it gets pretty expensive pretty quick. Blowing $100 worth of 308 ammo is pretty easy do in 2 or 3 hours. It's the reason why I picked up a 10/22 not long after my M14.

Look at it this way, if you're going to get into precision shooting you're going to be doing it a lot from cold bore, that means sitting around waiting for your center rifle barrel to cool between strings. A 22LR rifle will help pass the time while waiting. 500 rounds of 22LR ammo runs about $29 at walmart and does a pretty good job.

 

[Paul Morrison]

The M-14 was my first gun. I turned out ok.

 

[IonicRipper]

If you can't afford the $200. - $350. cost of a Ruger 10/22 (in addition to another centerfire rifle) then it's time for you to face the fact that you can't afford to shoot a centerfire rifle.

If you can't afford to shoot you can't learn to shoot.

If you are as broke as you suggest, forget any centrefire and - once you have completed your CFSC, reached the age of majority, and obtained your PAL - buy any .22LR rifle first.

At least, with a .22LR, you'll be able to afford to shoot.

K?

I didint express my self right. What i meant to say is i dont wanna spend that much money on a Ruger AND a M14 like you suggested. I want to learn to shoot first with an inexpensive rifle and THEN upgrade to something better.

P.S. why would you think i am under aged?

 

[Beadwindow]

If you do a bit of homework and keep your eyes out for deals, there's some decent .22s that can be had new or used for very reasonable prices. Some that come to mind are the Lakefield Mark IIs that might put you back a hundred and change (Savage makes them now for a bit over $200 with accutrigger), a variety of Cooeys (the tube fed models regularly show up for $65-100) and there's a whole bunch of decent, inexpensive guns by Marlin and a couple other makers. If you get can get one of these for a hundred and change plus a couple 500 round bricks of ammo, that will give you lots of practice during your trips to the range. Some decent centrefire rifle scopes will put you back more money.

I'd say get the M14, but until you either get more money, surplus ammo becomes readily available (not too likely) or you start reloading, you won't get too much shooting in with it. That said, there's lots to be said for practicing on 50-150 rounds of .22 at 50yards before taking out the M14 to shoot a few targets at 100 and 200 meters.

There's lots more to shooting than the few minutes it takes to quickly fire off a box of ammo. Think about the research, exercise (i.e. cardio-vascular), reloading, shooting, compiling records of your results and examining your technique, followed by more research, reloading, shooting, re-evaluating, etc. If you get proper snap caps, you can practice dry firing about 10-15 minutes a couple times a week (perhaps every day) to get more bang for your buck when you do take the M14 outside. Thow in the .22 rimfire practice and that should keep you busy enough.

BTW, if you're getting into shooting and price is a factor, you should research where you're going to shoot. Luckily, I've got access to some reasonably priced clubs, and know where I can shoot outdoors safely and legally without drawing undue attention, but you may have to factor in another $100-300 just for club fees depending on where you live.

 

[l_montour]

whenever someone ask me this question, my response is for them to get a Bolt action rifle regardless of the Caliber. When you're ready to shoot so is the firearm, and not the other way around.

This will help with the issue of new shooters turning around with the firearm after hitting the target, and possibly shooting someone with a semi-auto. Laugh if you will, i have seen this almost happen countless times.

this teaches you control, and function. Once everything is second nature, then move on to the Semi.

Remember, you have to take professional driving lessons before, Ferrari will sell you a car.

 

[t-star]

whenever someone ask me this question, my response is for them to get a Bolt action rifle regardless of the Caliber. When you're ready to shoot so is the firearm, and not the other way around.

This will help with the issue of new shooters turning around with the firearm after hitting the target, and possibly shooting someone with a semi-auto. Laugh if you will, i have seen this almost happen countless times.

this teaches you control, and function. Once everything is second nature, then move on to the Semi.

Remember, you have to take professional driving lessons before, Ferrari will sell you a car.

that's the fault of the line officer and not being properly disciplined- same as keeping your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and not keeping the barrel pointed down range- in the seervices they start you off with the gun you're going to be using, a semi typically- you don't "graduate"from one action to another- baloney

 

[abalas]

My vote goes to Stevens 200 in 223 bolt. Cheap ammo ($9 - $12 per box of 20), it is a centerfire, and the milder recoil is very conducive to learning shooting techniques. The rifle is cheap ($350 at lebaron). It comes in a sort of ugly gray stock but a little Krylon and a little creativity, you can turn the gun into some work of art and cool looks. They are also darn accurate out of the box. M14 as a first gun? Sounds interesting but it does need work, it shoots out of the box but to make it shoot nice, you need to spend some cash and time to make it shoot better.

 

[refurbsks]

How about a CZ 452 Lux? A bolt action .22LR with iron sights that is about as accurate as it will ever be out of the box. Sure it will set you back about as much as the Norinco M14 clone at first but the ammo will be a lot cheaper so you get to shoot a lot more in the long run and that's what we all want to do when we start out. Plus low noise and no recoil means you shoot as long as you want without fatigue. And you can put a scope on it a little later when you want to shoot with one. Still, the best part is, from the day you bought it to the day you pass it on, you won't have had to put a whole lot of extra money into trying to squeeze extra accuracy or reliability out of it. On the other hand, if you enjoy adding upgrades and custom parts to make the rifle entirely yours, then the 10/22 would be a great choice.

 

[Tomochan]

I'll chime in with my usual advice: get a .22LR ( recommend a bolt but I understand a 10/22 is more fun ) and, if funds allow, get a .223 bolt with reasonable ( ie not ebay fake but no need to go high end either) glass. Practice lots and lots with the .22LR and finish range sessions with the .223. Look at what others are shooting and ask ( real nice ) if you can look etc - many folks will offer you the opportunity to take a shot or two - and remember what you like etc. Figure out what kind of shooting you like most and the kind of shooter you are and grow your collection from there. Avoid every and all temptation to buy some .300 win mag or similar hard hitting thing ( hard to practice and expensive to feed ) unless you are sure you are going for moose every year

 

[Dimitri]

unless you are sure you are going for moose every year

A 308 Win can take moose, and if the user actually practices with it, it will probably be more effective then 95% of all the moose hunters I've met while hunting. You don't need some Magnum to kill a moose.

Dimitri

 

[H Wally]

I vote .22 rifle.

Why?
Because they are cheap, their ammo is cheap, they are often very accurate, they are lots of fun, they are easy to maintain and shoot, they will teach you more about shooting than any other rifle in my opinion.

A nice older target model .22 will run you $200. You can then buy thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo, and plink away as much as you like. Learn to shoot all your rounds into one hole, trick shoot clays rolled along the ground, plink shotshells off of bushes, teach others, all for cents on the dollar.

Almost everyone I know that shoots learned on a .22. Anyone I take shooting I encourage to try the .22 first, and only if they're really persistant do I hand them a larger gun for their first try (usually a 12 gauge). They almost always then decide to shoot the .22 .

A ruger 10/22 is another good choice, but it complicates things a little. More stuff to break, more to learn, less accurate (to a degree).

I've bought and sold a fair bit, and I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I have, my collection isn't complete without a .22 rifle.

 

[Nordland]

I vote SKS. Cheap to buy, cheap to feed. Easier transition to other large(r) calibers.

 

[rhshooter]

whenever someone ask me this question, my response is for them to get a Bolt action rifle regardless of the Caliber. When you're ready to shoot so is the firearm, and not the other way around.

This will help with the issue of new shooters turning around with the firearm after hitting the target, and possibly shooting someone with a semi-auto. Laugh if you will, i have seen this almost happen countless times.

this teaches you control, and function. Once everything is second nature, then move on to the Semi.

Remember, you have to take professional driving lessons before, Ferrari will sell you a car.

A number of my former customers drove Ferraris and if they had professional driving lessons it was from CAA. Walk into the dealership with cash in hand and they will sell you a car whether you have a drivers license or not never mind lessons... They did make it a 'condition' to buy as a marketing gimmick for a few models of supercar that you had to take their in-house driving course but most Ferrari owners don't drive an Enzo and I'm willing to bet they didn't make 50 cent take the course...

Jeff

 

[Zephram]

This is a great thread because I have also been thinking about an SKS purchase as well as M14. The argument against the cost of the M14 ammo is a major one IMO. I wonder why the ammo for the SKS is cheaper, doesn't seem like it should be, the bullets are about the same size aren't they? Isn't the .308 round produced in higher numbers with better availability here in Canada, than the round used by the AK??

SKS listed here at the following CGN supporter, both Norinco as well as Russian Surplus rifles for 50 bucks more, listed as in stock. Can someone PLEASE tell me either first hand experience or their best guess as to the quality difference between the Chinese and Russian SKS. For 50 bucks, if the Russian rifle is a bit better its a no brainer:

http://www.frontierfirearms.ca/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17_584

 

[IonicRipper]

Marstar will be having Norinco SKS's in stock but only in June according to their sales rep.

 

[t-star]

This is a great thread because I have also been thinking about an SKS purchase as well as M14. The argument against the cost of the M14 ammo is a major one IMO. I wonder why the ammo for the SKS is cheaper, doesn't seem like it should be, the bullets are about the same size aren't they? Isn't the .308 round produced in higher numbers with better availability here in Canada, than the round used by the AK??

SKS listed here at the following CGN supporter, both Norinco as well as Russian Surplus rifles for 50 bucks more, listed as in stock. Can someone PLEASE tell me either first hand experience or their best guess as to the quality difference between the Chinese and Russian SKS. For 50 bucks, if the Russian rifle is a bit better its a no brainer:

http://www.frontierfirearms.ca/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17_584

ok, you NEED to understand a few things
1 the round used by the sks and the m14 are NOT THE SAME
the ACTUAL BULLET DIAMETER of the 7x.62x39(sks) is .311, the m14 uses a .308- the casings are longer as well-51mm for the m14 and 39mm for the sks
the ammo for the sks is MILITARY SURPLUS, from at least old stocks from communist countries( or at least used to be) if not ancient - those countries have sold it to surplus dealers, who are now selling it to you at firesale prices- the market is FLOODED with "short russian" rounds at the moment- the round for the m14 is basically a 308 winchester, which is still being used and somewhat in demand,even though the average troopie uses a .223-if and when you find mil suprlus rounds in 308, they've got a much wider applications and demand higher prices- there might be an argument there if we still had the old fn,et al but not now-
personally, i won't have an sks or ANY RIFLE IN 7.62X39 as it doesn't come close to meeting my needs in either ACCURACY or "hitting power"- it's basically a low-end 30-30 which is just barely adequate for deer- and in my end of the country, the deer are big, but you're more likely to run into elk or moose-

 

[twig_40]

If you have never shot anything before, I would also recommend a .22 as your first rifle. For the simple fact that it will teach you how to hit what you are aiming at, and not kill your bank account while you do it. I learned on a .22 rifle and I am sure most of us here did the same. Lots of instructors suggest that shooters go back to the .22 to practice as it is cheap and does NOT promote bad habits because of recoil.

Since they are cheap you can save the money for your M14 quickly while you build a good foundation to shoot it. My priority is skill, not cost. Because once you get in this game....... good bye money. It costs what it costs to shoot, if money was all I was worried about, I wouldn't be shooting.

my .02$

 

[JBD]

22 LR 500 Rounds is around 20$

308 Winchester 500 Rds over 500$

Besides the cost. 22 LR recoils less, allowing you an easier time to develope sight alignment and trigger control skills. Also it is ballistically inefficient, so it allows you to understand the effect of wind and temperature on the flight of a bullet at a relatively shorter range.

22 LR is a good choice regardless of your skill level. It will allow a poor shooter to master the basic fundamentals. A proficient shooter to master shooting in the wind.
And an expert shooter to go back and practice the basic fundamentals

No matter how good we are we can all strive to get better and a good 22 can help with this.

 

[firebug08]

+1 for .22..... i bought the m-14 as my first rifle, but its just too expensive to shoot... especially when your learning.... buy a .22

 

[wildphil24]

I didint express my self right. What i meant to say is i dont wanna spend that much money on a Ruger AND a M14 like you suggested. I want to learn to shoot first with an inexpensive rifle and THEN upgrade to something better.

Most of us started with an inexpensive rifle. Along the road I learned that you get what you pay for. I lost time and money, selling a rifle to buy a new and again.
If you can afford, buy the good guns you'll "bet your life on" and keep for your life.
If you buy an SKS or Norinco anything, you will probably sell it within 3 years.

I agree you should start with a .22. Once you're a good-shot and want more, you can get a rugged tactical rifle like Ruger mini-30 or CZ 858.

Finally, when you're able, get a Springfield Armory M1A (commercial US M14).

If you also get a 12ga., you'll have 4 guns, be able to hunt anything in America and face most situations.

As often as possible, handle a gun before buying it.