Looking for some opinions from guys with experience with a M14 .ca aluminum mount. I want a quality mount that stays put, and is bulletproof. I would like to save some weight by getting a aluminum mount, if it is as good as the steel mount. If the M14 .ca aluminum mount is'nt as good as a steel mount, then I will get a quality steel mount, like a M14 .ca steel mount, or a arms#18.
M14 .ca Aluminum Mount vs Steel Mount ?
- Thread starter blueflash
- Start date
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
I find aluminium anything tends to crush, warp or wear out quickly. Its terrible for moving parts, threads strip out easy, I would not trust a sight mount on on a very "active" shooting platform to hold zero in the long run. I'm not talking 1000 rounds, I do that on 3 or 4 range trips I'm talking in the tens of thosands or rounds. I would expect the rifle to last at leaste 30K and beyond (maybe with a new barrel or two). I would not expect a alluminum sight mount too.
Every hit or wack on the scope would stress out the mount and cause it to losen off over time, more so then with steel.
If the couple of ounces between a 40mm and a 50mm scope is enough to wreck the mount from increased recoil stress... seriously? what would a rough truck ride do to it? or bush bashing? or god forbid you drop it?
further more... those CASM mounts I don't give a lot of credit... they are single point mounting with torsion presure to keep them set. Thats horible for alluminium and stectchy at best for steel. It makes me think of the "super tight " SKS NCSTAR mounts that seem realy good till they start to hop when firing every time the tension screws on the side losen off (Same mechanic for the front tension screw on the CASM mounts)
Also If the mount were to get hit its your recievers site mounts that take the force. its the weakest part of the reciever. I would cry if the rear sight holes on my reciver were to get snapped off, since then I can't use either an optic or the irons.
if they made a mark II version that had a piece to replace the stripper clip feeder, and screwed down into that, negating the need to tension onto the reciver at the front I would buy one.
you could get around the fudge factor by making the scope mount hole for scewing down to the striper clip piece slightly slotted front to back and the side to side is delt with by positioning the striper clip replacment peice
the front tensioning screw could be made into a smaller size bolt designed to actauly screw into the reciever (gun smithing) as an option
Every hit or wack on the scope would stress out the mount and cause it to losen off over time, more so then with steel.
If the couple of ounces between a 40mm and a 50mm scope is enough to wreck the mount from increased recoil stress... seriously? what would a rough truck ride do to it? or bush bashing? or god forbid you drop it?
further more... those CASM mounts I don't give a lot of credit... they are single point mounting with torsion presure to keep them set. Thats horible for alluminium and stectchy at best for steel. It makes me think of the "super tight " SKS NCSTAR mounts that seem realy good till they start to hop when firing every time the tension screws on the side losen off (Same mechanic for the front tension screw on the CASM mounts)
Also If the mount were to get hit its your recievers site mounts that take the force. its the weakest part of the reciever. I would cry if the rear sight holes on my reciver were to get snapped off, since then I can't use either an optic or the irons.
if they made a mark II version that had a piece to replace the stripper clip feeder, and screwed down into that, negating the need to tension onto the reciver at the front I would buy one.
you could get around the fudge factor by making the scope mount hole for scewing down to the striper clip piece slightly slotted front to back and the side to side is delt with by positioning the striper clip replacment peice
the front tensioning screw could be made into a smaller size bolt designed to actauly screw into the reciever (gun smithing) as an option
Last edited:
boss351cleveland
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Down by the river
Really good point .... might be a deal breaker for me ? I would like to see m14.ca do a torture tests by dropping a rifle from 5 feet on concrete a few times to see if those rear sight holes hold up? better yet smack the scope mount on the side a few times with a hammer ..
You could use any number of scope rails in this case almost none of them use the rear sight holes.
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
true but now you $250 rail is useless and you can't put the irons back on... so spend another $250 on a good rail?
I've used their "RD" mount for an Aimpoint T-1 and I'm currently using the CASM for an EOTech.
Both mounts are aluminum and I have experienced a single problem with either of them.
Other optic rails / scope mounts I use include the M8 from UltiMAK and a Smith Enterprise P/N 2006.
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
But how big was the mounted scope? How much did you beat it up? And how may tes of thoasands of rounds did you put through it?
Aluminum scope mounts are more than adequate for anything less than .50 cal. Steel is unnecessarily heavy for 99% of applications. The extra weight gains you nothing.
The scope is aluminum, guns are aluminum, you don't need steel rings and bases.
At least you didn't ask for titanium.
The scope is aluminum, guns are aluminum, you don't need steel rings and bases.
At least you didn't ask for titanium.
- Location
- Parksville Vancouver Island
BS
The reason is because they need revenue to bank role there stock and tooling for steel costs a fortune. So they went out a made a aluminum one took the money from that and dumped it into a stock. Then when people who didn't own a S&B or other high end scopes started to notice that they were craping out on them or people like me who went out and baught one noticed the flex in it. They figured before there name turned to trash that they better come out with a steel one. Although the only true way is to lock down the front of the rail like the white feather mount from Springfield does but they do not want to walk down that road. 50 and 40 mm rings is just smoke and mirrors. More like they don't want the whip of the action causing the bell to slam of the rail. But then again to notice these things you have to shot more than a box of ammo at a time.
I bought a CASM Gen II aluminum mount,installed exactly as per
instructions,burris rings and an ancient bushnell scopechief VI
3x9x40.200 rounds of federal blue box 150grn 308.Zero problems
and holds zero.Got good servive from Frank and lots of comms.
Regards 375rum
instructions,burris rings and an ancient bushnell scopechief VI
3x9x40.200 rounds of federal blue box 150grn 308.Zero problems
and holds zero.Got good servive from Frank and lots of comms.
Regards 375rum
1. The reason is my customers asked for a steel model.
2. The Blackfeather "RS" was built under my direction, mostly, with 4, sometimes 5 people volunteering their time over a two year period.
3. The Installations Instructions PDF highlights this concern in Note 3.
4. The CASM in aluminum is more popular than the steel model. It is lighter, sets up fast and offers a solid 4 point retention.
5. My policy is simple and generally principled for the volume of people I talk too, thus steel rings, steel CASM, alu. rings, alu. CASM. -40mm bell, aluminum CASM, 50+ bell, steel CASM.
6. The CASM scope mount in either steel or aluminum is high enough to never have had this problem.
7. The CASM spent 5 months in design prototyping. 3 years in the open market. No problems.
The majority of aftermarket firearms parts are designed in 6061 aluminum.
Any shooting platform with a round count as high as you are suggesting would have the rifle inspected by an armorer at interval or, you would be doing the inspections yourself to maintain the rifle and the mount.
Indeed, but I would state, with respect, that you should be more concerned about your scope under these conditions than our scope mount failing. The CASM provides a peep sight for practical use at practical distances for this very reason. If your scope fails, you have a backup that works.
My policy is simple and generally principled for the volume of people I talk too, the general rule of thumb may not apply to everyone however, steel rings, steel CASM, alu. rings, alu. CASM. -40mm bell, aluminum CASM, 50+ bell, steel CASM.
It is a 4 point mount. Each of the large 1/4x20tpi fasteners are set with their own set screw. All of these are held further still with blue Loctite. They do not move.
No sir. The anology is false.
Setting up the CASM inside the rear scope mount pocket adds a solid mass of aluminum between the rear sight ears in the upper and lower part of the sight pocket. Your assumption that the mount makes the rear sight ears weaker is not accurate. The CASM strengthens the connection between mount and receiver perhaps more so than the original M14 iron sight assembly.
The stripper clip guide dove tail slot is unfortunately an inconsistently machined mounting option. It is also the reason why you have so many problems with Brookfield inspired scope mounts.
The CASM scope mount will never require any gunsmithing, shimming, bolt removal or modication: you install it in 10 minutes and it will work.
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
I dont care how many aftermarket parts are made with alum. I aviod them because I find they wear out and get sloppy.
Im not worried about the hits on the scope as much since they are vortex and the warrenty is top notch, however the levrage afforded by the 6inch prybar you call a scope mount any any additional levrage afforded by the scope stick even further out forward, is more levrage on my site ears from a hit to the scope then you would get by dropping it off a building on the rear sites. Even if a good hit doesnt break my sight ears that are notumder any form of warenty, the mounts alum is going to stretch around the screws.
My analigy about the ncstar moumts is not wrong, your site rails mount just like theirs. It has a single falcfim point for attachment, then uses a boat load of screws to torsion it up. Its a method I hate seeing used and I will not buu any site mount that attaches that way.
I merrly sugested a additional mounting option that would alleviate all my formentioned issues and could be implimented with one slotted hole on your mount and a extra piece. If you dont want to do it fine, no need to go all bold on me. Just dont expect my bussiness.
Im not worried about the hits on the scope as much since they are vortex and the warrenty is top notch, however the levrage afforded by the 6inch prybar you call a scope mount any any additional levrage afforded by the scope stick even further out forward, is more levrage on my site ears from a hit to the scope then you would get by dropping it off a building on the rear sites. Even if a good hit doesnt break my sight ears that are notumder any form of warenty, the mounts alum is going to stretch around the screws.
My analigy about the ncstar moumts is not wrong, your site rails mount just like theirs. It has a single falcfim point for attachment, then uses a boat load of screws to torsion it up. Its a method I hate seeing used and I will not buu any site mount that attaches that way.
I merrly sugested a additional mounting option that would alleviate all my formentioned issues and could be implimented with one slotted hole on your mount and a extra piece. If you dont want to do it fine, no need to go all bold on me. Just dont expect my bussiness.
The CASM scope mount is made out of 7075 series aluminum. It has an ultimate tensile strength of 74,000–78,000 psi (510–572 MPa) and yield strength of at least 63,000–69,000 psi (434–503 MPa). Let's just say that is pretty damn good.
Dropping your rifle off a building is not going to help you in a SHTF situation.
I don't think that the design principle behind the CASM scope mount is being conveyed here properly. Let me explain. The 4-point retention system begins with the back of this mount tensioned up with an over-sized 5/16" half dog tipped set screw, which rotates the mount around the two tapered head 1/4" self centering screws in the rear sight ears. This upwards tension at the rear forces the front of the mount tight to the front of the receiver. By design, the mount is installed with the front end a few degrees down from true to the bore horizontal. Then, the front of the mount is pre-tensioned up a tiny bit by another 5/16" half dog tipped set screw. For greater security, both of the 5/16" vertical adjusting/ tension screws and the tapered ¼” side screws are locked immovably in place by smaller locking set screws. With blue Loctite, this “belt and suspenders” approach to keeping all the screws effectively double-locked, and in securing proper retention of any settings, is designed to achieve excellent security. This “pre-stressed for vertical adjustment” design, with the front and back of the mount held tightly against rotation, eliminates all variations in elevation due to mount shifting under recoil. The sides of the mount are held securely in horizontal alignment with the bore by tight fit in the rear sight pocket, and two large 1/4" self-centering screws through the holes in the rear sight “ears”. These side screws are locked in place by smaller locking set screws. The large amount of high-strength 7075 alloy material in perfect contact with the left side of the rear sight pocket, plus the tight clearances between the mount and the inside of the receiver rear sight pocket, plus the thickness of the material purposely left in the mount, holds the mount securely... .
I appreciate your reply and I am not trying to sell you on the CASM mount but I will reply to errors in your post. I also take no offence at what you wrote as you shouldn't when I say that I would not change the CASM scope mount for your design option. Your so-called improvement will not work on every M14 rifle like the CASM scope mount does out of the box because you are inclined to use an out of spec. stripper clip guide dove tail slot. The CASM is a light weight scope mount design that uses 7075 series aluminum and being that it is set up in the rear sight pocket provides the shooter a rifle that is nicely balanced in comparison to a more forward mounting option. This is the same design philosophy I put into Blackfeather: balance, weight, strength in that order, one not far behind the other so to speak. Cheers for now.
