M14 case life
- Thread starter hend238
- Start date
It's a good practice to limit the use of cases fired a few times but there's no such thing as a fixed number. One "critical" check is to see if there is incipient case head separation due to excessive headspace. If you see a bright ring forming slightly above the head, dump the brass and not use it in any rifle. Another better test is to form a 90 degree angle in a paperclip and insert it in the case and run it along the inside and feel for any indication of a ring forming inside the case due to stretching and thinning. It's also good to check for overall length and trim if necessary. I hope this helps.
I forgot about the paperclip trick. Thanks for reminding me.
You can check it in Sierra Reloading Manual #5 but they recommend 4 reloading for M1 Garand 30-06 brass, 4 reloading M14 7.62 Nato brass, 8 reloadings for 223 Rem in AR-15, 8-10 reloading for bolt-action cartridges (no more than 2 trimming) and 3-4 reloading for belted magnum cases.
M1 and M14 brass need to be full-size and can't have a tight chamber since they're semi-auto (not much camming action when closing the bolt), this means that the case will strech and you might get a catastrophic case separation.
Lyman recommends pretty much the same number so it's probably a very reasonable and safe limit.
Alex
M1 and M14 brass need to be full-size and can't have a tight chamber since they're semi-auto (not much camming action when closing the bolt), this means that the case will strech and you might get a catastrophic case separation.
Lyman recommends pretty much the same number so it's probably a very reasonable and safe limit.
Alex
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Try sectioning different brands of brass after 3 loadings of your favorite concoction to measure brass loss just forward of the head. That case lenght trimming is coming from somewhere (as mentioned above), and I find its a good indication of when your cases have seen their end, and what number of handloads to consider maximum.
Good idea. What would be considered a min dimension measured fwd of the web then? Of course it varies with case manufacturer but ball park.
Some of mine are on their 5th reload, however after 3 ya gotta do some serious touch-up due to the extractor damage.
As for the case, for MY (insert misc. legal mumbo-jumbo protecting me from liability if you blow your gun to smithereens based on my advice
) rifle (prior to new bolt) I full case resized, but left about .005" from fully compressing the case. This left some unique trimming issues for the neck.
The reason is that once the case was stretched and knowing my headspace, the cases did not stretch any longer to any real extent.
Just had to lightly file the burrs and damage from the extractor on the head.
As for the case, for MY (insert misc. legal mumbo-jumbo protecting me from liability if you blow your gun to smithereens based on my advice
) rifle (prior to new bolt) I full case resized, but left about .005" from fully compressing the case. This left some unique trimming issues for the neck.The reason is that once the case was stretched and knowing my headspace, the cases did not stretch any longer to any real extent.
Just had to lightly file the burrs and damage from the extractor on the head.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Nova Scotia
I'd go with 50 % wastage from new case thickness at the extrusion point measured with verniers or just by eye with the sectioned case polished to show true cross section. I used this on my 7 Rem Mag cases and found with heavy loads ( 175gr Sierra BTSP over 66grs of IMR4831/CCI250 , yes thats hot, 3050 FPS from 24" M70) I could only reload 2 times + factory fired case. third time meant incipient head separation or nearly there. I've seen .308 hot loads in my BLR 81 go this way on 3 loads + factory fired case.
This may be too much wastage for safety when using heavy loads, and I guess work hardening has a detrimental effect as well when determining when a case will probaly separate. The firing does not produce the anneaing affect a torch does over the whole case, combined with rapid cooling.
- Location
- Federal Riding of Wascana
I've decided to discard after the 4th loading, as every time I reload the case is stretched sometimes 15 thousands to trim down, and the extractor is chewing the hell out of the rim. Haven't seen any real dark rings yet at the base but don't want to wait that long either. This is for the M14s, my Breda garand is going on 8 loadings right now using of all things, Federal brass.
BattleRife
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I have some cases that were loaded 15 times for my M14. It wouldn't bother me at all to shoot them again.
Based on the fact that you took this recommendation seriously, and your comment about Federal brass, I think you put too much faith in stuff you read from dubious sources.
Based on the fact that you took this recommendation seriously, and your comment about Federal brass, I think you put too much faith in stuff you read from dubious sources.
- Location
- Federal Riding of Wascana
Where do you get that I took this recommendation seriously?, it's based on the brass from my particular rifle, and not sitting filing the edges from extractor damage, and the fact that I've had to trim the cases excessively over the 4 firings, not something I read in a f---ing book.
What about the comment on Federal brass? I'm saying they hold up better in my Garand than my Norinco.
Of course, if something is posted on the internet(enough times) about 15 loadings for the M14s it must be true
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Central Ontario
Thread hijack in progress.I resurected this thread for two reasons.
First, although I'm not all the way to the end, Gunslingers link (http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf)is something that anyone who owns an M-305/M1A should have saved to their computer. If your not reloading you should be at least considering it. There is no other way to get the most out of your rifle, period (unless Federal starts loading GMM tuned to your lot of M-305's, and even then...). Save it now. It may not be so easy to find next week, month, or whatever (try to find Graymist's supposedly excellent page on .223AI, it must be out there, I can't find it though. If anyone knows, a PM with the link please.).
Second, Case life. I just about fell over when I saw the case stretch after full length sizing. If it wasn't trimed that case could cause a jump in pressure that at best would cause premature failure of parts (if you made a habit of trying to stuff untrimmed cases into the chamber and pulling the trigger). With all the talk of sloppy tolerances plus ware resulting in some unlikely condition that may allow your rifle to fire when not fully chambered (never say never), at worst, boom! I see some have taken to neck sizing. It may work but if you do your messing with your rifles ability to feed reliably. Granted I'm making some assumptions. I've never loaded for a semi but you can have feeding problems for bolt guns if you don't give the shoulder a bump now and then. I can't see how you wouldn't develop a similar problem in a shorter period of time with the semi (something to consider if you compete or your breathlessly waiting for the Zombie hoards to claw their way free from the grave).
While I'm talking reloading I'm going to bring up bullets and brass. I'm going to try some 155 A-Max first. These are not the best choice for a semi though due to the secant ogive. I've had good groups with 208's in my WM, but that's with them lightly jammed. You can't do that feeding from an M-14 mag and I found out the hard way a few years back single feeding an M-14 can give you a suprise. So I'm going to give it a shot (pun intended) but I'm on my way later today to pick up some 168 gr HPBT's. As these have a tangent ogive they should be less sensitive to seating depth. So to finally get to the point has anyone worked up loads with both? If so are the 155 A-max's as sensitive to seating depth as the 208's, and should I not bother with them (in the short term) and just go with the 168 gr Match? Last, has anyone tried to purchase once fired brass out of the US? I'm interested in getting some Lake City brass and at $115 for 500 (perhaps less) it's not a bad deal if the shipping isn't too much. Getting new brass shipped may (or not) be a problem, but could you not call this scrap metal (or not) for the purpose of shipping it across the border?
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Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Normally I try not to give useful advice, or add anything of value to a thread, but a lot of people don't understand this topic. People will say toss the brass after 4 loads, it's generally decent advice, but I can't just accept that without understanding why.
Headspace is the key here, and you have to understand how separation works before you can guesstimate how many reloads your brass can take. When there is excessive headspace, your chamber is longer than the brass going into it. When you pull the trigger, the firing pin shoots the casing forward into the chamber. The round goes off, the case walls expand into the walls of the chamber, and then there is backwards force on the casing. This causes the brass to stretch at the web (head). If you keep resizing the same piece of brass and run it through that chamber, eventually the head will come off and you'll have brass stuck in the chamber.
This will happen faster if you use 308win commercial brass in a longer chamber, say 1.638 to 1.640 but won't happen as fast if you use NATO milspec brass. Norinco cuts the chambers to accept both cartridges, they're usually half way between 1.634 and 1.6340, around 1.638 so you can shoot both. 7.62x51nato brass can be reloaded and shot probably 10 times out of a 1.638 chamber, whereas I bet you'd find 308win brass starting to crack at the web around 5 firings if you used standard M80 loads (2750fps 147g fmj imr4064 powder).
Here are ways you can get around the 4 shot rule:
1) Use nato brass
2) Check your headspace
3) Use the paperclip to feel your webbing
4) Neck size your brass. Despite what people say about this not working in semi's, this is a military battle rifle and is very sloppy. Neck sized brass simply works. I personally do a partial full length sizing with my rifle.
5) Don't load so hot
I hope this helps
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Central Ontario
Thanks, confirms a few things I thought may be happening. It explains the case streatch from one firing. I think I will get some of that Lake City brass, I can get it a ride if they won't ship it. Regardless of where I get my brass time to get a pocket swager.
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The other thing you can do is to not resize fully. Leave about 0.005" from the base of teh die to the shell holder. That is what I did and went more than 5 reloads.
I do not reload excessively hot. The only thing I have to do is to clean up the mess on the head from the extractor. I have one of those diamond flat files. Works like a charm, no binding.
I do not reload excessively hot. The only thing I have to do is to clean up the mess on the head from the extractor. I have one of those diamond flat files. Works like a charm, no binding.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
It's what I currently do with my Win Mag. I just let the die kiss the shoulder. I've a body die on the way, then it's back to the collet die.
What a depressing night!!! I have everything to start loading up some 168 Match and 155 A-max. I preped 50 cases and get out the priming tool, no 308 shell holder. At least a half dozen, none fit! Up till 3:30 looking for the tool that came with my press. Turns out the ram is too short
. Made a little spacer so I'm good now. Here's the really irritating part. Six hours before I had the universal tool in my hand. Cash is tight right now so I put it back.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
One time I spilled 3lbs of varget on the floor, so I know the feeling.
Let's just say I swept it up and used it again, cathair, lint, dirt and all haha'
Those rounds were surprisingly accurate, I may have to do more testing with filthy ass powder
I MAY HAVE FOUND THE SECRET SAUCE!!!!!1
Let's just say I swept it up and used it again, cathair, lint, dirt and all haha'
Those rounds were surprisingly accurate, I may have to do more testing with filthy ass powder
I MAY HAVE FOUND THE SECRET SAUCE!!!!!1
