M14 denting the primer on loading ?

archie_james_c said:
If you're hunting or something and don't want to dent your primers, then just assist the bolt forward until it closes then just give it the last push to completely chamber the round and rotate the bolt into battery.
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If you are going to do that then turn the spindle valve to shut off the gas system.
You should never ride the oprod forward or chamber with your hand, because if it does go off you may mangle your fingers or worse.
 
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special14/articles/1015coldcase15.html

Bullets traveling downward at terminal gravitational velocity can certainly kill. Pointing your gun upwards is never a safe direction unless you are in a very sturdy building. Please don't learn gun handing from these guys:

wanted-angelina-jolie.jpg
 
Back to the original post, the pics shown are a long way from a slam fire but it is not impossible. This just shows the absolute need for common sense all the time...do not unload or load a rifle without keeping the muzzle under control.

A couple of years ago on this board there was a discussion about unloading lever guns when you got back to the truck during or after a hunt; a couple of posts were pro cycling all rounds through the action until the gun was empty. That thread included a link to a news item about someone shooting his son because he cycled ammo through a lever gun while his son was standing in front of him...
 
J996 said:
If you are going to do that then turn the spindle valve to shut off the gas system.
You should never ride the oprod forward or chamber with your hand, because if it does go off you may mangle your fingers or worse.
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I mean very slowly move it forward then push it that little bit into full battery...i can't see the firing pin even move if you move the bolt forward as slow as i'm talking about..
 
MustangFrank said:
Could you explain this further. I think this might be something I could pass on but not quite sure what you mean. Is there another way people load thier guns other than a magazine inserted in the firearm? Its probably obvious but my brain just isn't getting it. Thanks
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My understanding is that the magazine buffers the speed of the cartridge impacting the bolt. Ergo, as the pin strikes the primer the cartridge is already moving forward therefore there is less impact force on the primer by the pin.
 
the first time i noticed my m305 denting primers was 3 years ago when i was deer hunting... i was curious to see if it the round would go off if I used the same cartridge enough times...

I loaded the same round into the chamber from my mag about 20 times in a row.. the dimple seemed to get deeper every time but it did not fire..

almost a year later, while at the range, i slammed a fresh round into the chamber and "BOOM", the rifle fired...

i was pointing downrange into the backstop when i let it go, so it was no biggie, but it did scare the crap out of me.. since then i only use CCI #34 primers for my reloads..

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a raised primer as i'm very careful with my reloads.. maybe my firing pin was sticking or something.. always better to play it safe and point the rifle downrange into a backstop when racking a round into the chamber.. a good rule to follow regardless of what kind of firearm your loading.
 
Seeing as the case never touches the boltface until the bolt is in fill battery, the fin is impacting the primer only when the bolt slamming forward overcomes the extractor claw. I have thought about installing a spring into the bolt to keep the firing pin to the rear until hit by the hammer. Just a pen spring or something looks like it may fit on the rear of the pin, between where the pin dips down, and where it enters the bolt.

Not at home now, but will look when I get home.....
 
valmet762 said:
the first time i noticed my m305 denting primers was 3 years ago when i was deer hunting... i was curious to see if it the round would go off if I used the same cartridge enough times...

I loaded the same round into the chamber from my mag about 20 times in a row.. the dimple seemed to get deeper every time but it did not fire..

almost a year later, while at the range, i slammed a fresh round into the chamber and "BOOM", the rifle fired...

i was pointing downrange into the backstop when i let it go, so it was no biggie, but it did scare the crap out of me.. since then i only use CCI #34 primers for my reloads..

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a raised primer as i'm very careful with my reloads.. maybe my firing pin was sticking or something.. always better to play it safe and point the rifle downrange into a backstop when racking a round into the chamber.. a good rule to follow regardless of what kind of firearm your loading.
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So what was the primer type that went off ?
 
PatD said:
Seeing as the case never touches the boltface until the bolt is in fill battery, the fin is impacting the primer only when the bolt slamming forward overcomes the extractor claw. I have thought about installing a spring into the bolt to keep the firing pin to the rear until hit by the hammer. Just a pen spring or something looks like it may fit on the rear of the pin, between where the pin dips down, and where it enters the bolt.

Not at home now, but will look when I get home.....
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I don't think this is a good idea. If that spring breaks its gonna get sprayed/sprung past your boltface where it could do some wonderful damage or jamming. I say let sleeping dogs sleep.
 
My advice, after 50 years and counting, the m14 has never been fitted with a firing pin return spring. If it was a good idea it would have been done many years ago.
Primer dents are normal in many semi autos that employ a free floating firing pin. The important thing in these rifles that exhibit excessive denting, is to have the firing pin protrusion checked.
The bolt and internals MUST be kept bone dry and free of grease. Oil and any other matter that may impede firing pin movement.
I have a newly manufactured M14 bolt disassembly tool availlable to order, please p.m. Or email for details.
 
2 things, the spring would be installed on the pin at the rear of the bolt, negating the argument of jamming the boltface. Secondly, by the logic I'm seeing here, anyone with a good idea may as well just forget trying it. I mean, cause if it was worth it, it would be done already....right?

How do you think stuff is improved???? By taking the existing, and experimenting with it.

As I recall, there is already a similar item to be fit into AR's to make them "California safe"? Can't remember where I got that from though.

Agreed about the firing pin protrusion, but more peace of mind can never hurt.
 
Federal primers are known to be soft. That is why Lee Precision does not recommend them to be used in their reloading presses. There is a large difference between that dimple and the dent left from a solid firing pin strike. CCI and WIN primers are harder.
 
To further on what I was saying, where I thought I could maybe install the spring (while in the truck 400 KM away from the rifle, it would not fit if I wanted it to........oh well.....
 
Interestingly enough, the Springfield Armory manual for the m14/m1a says that surplus ammo has stronger primers, civi ammunition may slam fire and dented primers are to be expected.

3. The M1A is designed and built to specifications to shoot standard factory military 7.62 NATO ammunition. The specifications for standard military ammunition include harder primers to withstand the slight indentation from the firing pin when the bolt chambers a cartridge. This slight indentation is normal. The use of civilian ammunition with more sensitive primers or handloads with commercial primers and/or improperly seated primers increase the risk of primer detonation when the bolt slams forward. This unexpected "slam fire" can occur even if the trigger is not being pulled and if the safety is on. Use of military specification ammunition will help avoid this. Every shooter should use extreme caution when loading this or any other firearm. See page 15 for instructions on proper loading to help avoid a "slam fire". Also see enclosed article on “Slam Fire” written by Wayne Faatz.
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