M14 Gas system unitizing

PoFF

PoFF

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Ok, I know that I'm about to look very stupid by asking such a question, but I've read, re-read and re-re-read the M14 FAQ about gas system unitizing and I still can't figure where exactly to get it welded.

As a picture is worth a thousand words, could anyone post, or send me a link to a picture of an actually unitized gas system, or a schematic, and also what I need to say to the welder who will weld it (I got the TIG part, but not the relief hole, pre-heating, etc), as I know very little about steel types and welding (heh, civil engineering didn't cover these subject, too bad guns aren't made out of concrete, now I could understand better :D )

The gun in the current setup (all original except the spring guide) is very accurate right now, 1.5" average groups with irons shooting my reloaded ammo (up to 3" with factory), but the long term project for this gun is to make it as good as a semi-auto can do, so unitizing the gas system might be a good first step

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 
go to westtexasarmory.com, look in photos section. This guy welds at 12 and 6. the pic shows the 6 oclock weld. show the pic to a welder along with the two parts. tell him the gas cylinder is cast chrome moly steel, and that you've been told a pre heat works best (he will know what this means). Do yourself a favour and remove the parkerizing yourself, so that he does'nt have to do it with his trusty 40 grit angle grinder. Hope this helps
 
JP is correct. The 12 and 6 o'clock will work

My practice is to do 3 of them, 10, 2 and 6 o'clock, kinda like an upside down peace symbol.

I've been successful in the past having the gas cylinder ON the barrel (no joking...)

And also successful clamping the 2 parts: front band and gas cylinder together.

Whatever works for you. Just give'r...

Barney

Too bad we did not have a welder in our last 3 M14 clinics.
 
IMHO,
based on owning, building and shooting DOZENS of the M-14/M1A/M305rifles, unless you are actually a serious competitive target shooter [ like Hungry ], most of the accuracy tweaks - including unitizing - are a waste of money. Get a decent GI fiberglass stock [ don't concern yourself too much about the outside ... look to see that the rear recoil surfaces on the inside are still fresh ]. Then get a GI op rod spring [ more for reliability than accuracy ], and if the rifle requires headspacing, a GI bolt fitted properly. After that, a decent trigger job with GI hammer, sear, and pins - 4 1/2 lbs CRISP! If you really want to go further, hard fit the gas assembly by peening the grooves on the barrel, recrown the barrel [ carefully ... don't chip the the chrome lining], ream out the flash hider, and make sure it is TIGHT! Going for more than this brings you past the point of diminishing returns. The difference between an M-14 that will consistently shoot 2" and one that will consistently shoot 1" can be THOUSANDS of dollars. Is 1" smaller groups worth that much to you??

I've had a few M1A/M-14/M-305 rifles that had almost every possible tweak known to man, no expense spared. One was a SA Super Match with SS barrel and Macmillan glass stock, another was a SA National Match in bedded walnut, another was a hand built SA HVY barrel, and another was a hand built Chines receiver with all GI parts. All of these rifles shot about 1 1/4" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds with their favorite loads. The best 100 yd group I've personally seen from an M-14/M1A/M305 was 10 shots of 168 GR HPBT into 3/4". This was from a mildly accurised TRW M-14 I'd built for an ex-Brit sniper, and was shot with IRON sights. My personal best group with these type of rifles would be about 1" - 1 1/8", again shot from a mildly tweaked Chinese/GI Bastard I built from scratch, off a bipod, with a 24X scope.

I've also had literally DOZENS of the M-14/M1A/M305 type rifles, in fact nearly every one I've seen, that would shoot under 2" with the load they liked best. This may have required some inexpensive tweaking. Some of these rifles would do 1 1/2" with CHEAP Hirtenberger 7.62 NATO BALL. SO, what more do you need?

Keep in mind that many CHEAP bolt action .308 Rifles, such as the Rem 600, Rem 788, Savage 110 etc can be found that will shoot sub-MOA with NO tweaking, at a cost much less than some of these M-14 accessories or replacement parts, that won't shrink your groups more than a few fractions of an inch.

Spend your "accurising" money on trying out lots of different brands/types of ammo to see which ammo YOUR rifle likes best. The M-14 type of rifles are incredibly ammo sensitive, and groups can vary in the same rifle from 4" to MOA with the right ammo. And don't be surprised if you find one load that shoots near MOA in your bone stock M305. Try this before spending all sorts of CASH on tweaks you may not need.

BTDT ... [;{)
LAZ 1
 
I have found that the least expensive methods of accurizing the M14S/M305 is this:

1. Shim the gas system (all of mine are shimmed, M14 FAQs)
2. R33 op-rod spring guide
3. USGI op-rod spring
4. Garand rear sights
5. Properly indexed barrel
6. USGI fiberglass stock

Or you can go all out, do the above mods and get a SAGE stock instead of the USGI. I have a JAE100 on order so it will be an interesting comparison between that one and a Sage.
 
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