M14 long range shooting?

jeepcjaholic

jeepcjaholic

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
71   0   1
Location
Vancouver Island B.C.
Anyone use there m14 platform rifle for long range shooting? I'm sure there are more then a few. I have been thinking more about this as of late considering the IDF kits and the three heavy General Dynamics I have. One is well on its way in a Sage EBR MK14 setup but the latest two have me thinking along the lines of designated long-range setups. Any thoughts and info from personal perspective would be much appreciated
 
With my NM m1a I get 2-3 moa out to 500 yds with handloads (155 vld or 168 mk ) . I test my reloads with the gas shut off ( it can shoot 1-1.5 moa at 100 yds while testing good loads )
 
Don't expect it to make teeny tiny bolt gun groups. It'll easily get minute of commie engine room hits as far as you push it, like it was designed to do. But print tiny little dime sized groups? Nope.
 
dahs said:
Don't expect it to make teeny tiny bolt gun groups. It'll easily get minute of commie engine room hits as far as you push it, like it was designed to do. But print tiny little dime sized groups? Nope.
Click to expand...

Im a realist so I don't expect bolt performance from a gas gun. But I would like to learn and enjoy what I have!!
 
It's quite vague, what are you expecting to do really? I have been working on my stock norc (some tweaks, small part swaps and reloads) and found a handload that it likes. 2.25 MOA 100 meters 10 shot group iron sights. That's enough to hit figure 11 up to 700 yards in theory.
 
Dake21 said:
It's quite vague, what are you expecting to do really? I have been working on my stock norc (some tweaks, small part swaps and reloads) and found a handload that it likes. 2.25 MOA 100 meters 10 shot group iron sights. That's enough to hit figure 11 up to 700 yards in theory.
Click to expand...

Why did you think it vague? It is a question nothing more. I have been playing with this platform for many years but have never tried to stretch there legs. Know I would like to, just that simple! Been reading on line and would like to play with hand loading as well. Our range only goes out to 311 yards and for this reason I sold my 700p in 308. But there are other options as well a short drive away. I just want to play with my big boy toys is all. See what I can do and learn along the way
 
I said it's vague because ''long range'' is subjective to the person. Some think 300 is long range, some not.
Then there's the type of shooting you want to do, precision shooting on paper or hitting a large gong?

300 meters is well within m305 capabilites.

I've tried a couple different handloads and only one recipe shot better than the federal blue box 150gr (2.5 MOA 5 shot groups) it's 44.5gr of BL-C(2) with 168gr Sierra Match King (SMK) and winchester 7,62x51 brass. I don't remember the COAL but it's something like 2.850.
 
Dake21 said:
I said it's vague because ''long range'' is subjective to the person. Some think 300 is long range, some not.
Then there's the type of shooting you want to do, precision shooting on paper or hitting a large gong?

300 meters is well within m305 capabilites.

I've tried a couple different handloads and only one recipe shot better than the federal blue box 150gr (2.5 MOA 5 shot groups) it's 44.5gr of BL-C(2) with 168gr Sierra Match King (SMK) and winchester 7,62x51 brass. I don't remember the COAL but it's something like 2.850.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information. I'm wanting to print on paper and I know I have a lot to learn but this is what is drawing me in this direction. I will be starting from the very beginning thinking 50 yards and working my way out from there. As of now my plan is glass not open and the first rifle is close to completion. Best parts from a heavy IDF kit and M21 kit plus parts I had already. I have it in a Sage ebr stock and all fitting has been done. SAK barrel medium weight trw bolt and trigger USGI NM sites M21 flash hidder and USGI full round spring guide. Not sure of scope or rings yet and more parts coming this week, but should work good I'm hoping. LRB receiver as well. Guess I'm stepping up from the CQB and E2 builds I'm more accustomed to.
 
Before I really got into bolt guns, I shot my M14 out to 475 at our range weekly. I've got a thread up somewhere in here. It'll hold 1.5 moa (5 rounds) reliably with 168 gr Hornady HPBTs with 40.3 gr of Benchmark in Fed cases and CCI 200 primers. I've got a long range spot where I have steel from 300 out to 980 and next time I head out there with my bolt gun, I might just bring my M14 along...
 
800y is do-able with-out any tweaks or re-building to the gas system.

It has been my experiance that once a fella has a bite of the 800y pie, 1000y is the next "logical" step....

But it involves a lot of experimentation to dial-in a load that is supersonic at 1000 and won't beat up the M-14 pattern rifle. Generally, I have found that it is easiest to just turn off the gas and shoot like a bolt action. But most guys want a semi-auto rifle, not a straight pull bolt action. If they wanted a manually operated bolt gun, they woulda just bought a bolt action.

Shooting an M-14 out to 600y with irons is very do-able. I know if I can do it, anybody can! I've seen 358 Rooster make hits at 650 with Chinese copper wash in a pre-'07 heel stamped norinco rifle.

The problem arises when the 147gr projectile drops below the speed of sound and you loose your dope. I believe the FMJs tumble and then just fall outta the sky. I have very similar problems with the 168 SMK @ 800. At 800 repeatable hits, at 850-900 nothing.... the cure? Push them faster. Or switch to heavier projectiles with better BC.

Both of these options are hell on your gas system and reciprocating mass.

Cheap and dirty solution, drill a .040" hole in the end of the gas plug. This will vent a minimum of 2000 psi from the gas cylinder. Down side, your rifle will no longer operate with NATO ammo.

Slightly more expensive solution, buy a Schuster adjustable gas plug from brownelles. This will only work if you have an American threaded gas cylinder.... so if you currently have a chi-com gas cylinder, you'll be looking to upgrade that too!

Build your hand load with the gas turned off, this will give you a very good idea of where your pressure limitations are. Good reloading techniques will net decent brass life. (Neck sizing, or minimal FLRS of the brass so you are not working brass too much).

That's pretty much all I can think of right this second, but I will say this. I wouldnt start match handloading for long range with a M-14 pattern rifle. I'd learn the basics and the do's & dont's on a bolt gun, then transfer the knowledge to the '14.

My $.02
John
 
Thanks for all the info and yes John a bolt gun may be the best way but I have more then a few M14's and just not into forking out more cash on another setup. That was my original plan to do a Sako but I have my pig head set on sticking with this platform. Cash justification I guess!!
 
m14medic.ca said:
800y is do-able with-out any tweaks or re-building to the gas system.

It has been my experiance that once a fella has a bite of the 800y pie, 1000y is the next "logical" step....

But it involves a lot of experimentation to dial-in a load that is supersonic at 1000 and won't beat up the M-14 pattern rifle. Generally, I have found that it is easiest to just turn off the gas and shoot like a bolt action. But most guys want a semi-auto rifle, not a straight pull bolt action. If they wanted a manually operated bolt gun, they woulda just bought a bolt action.

Shooting an M-14 out to 600y with irons is very do-able. I know if I can do it, anybody can! I've seen 358 Rooster make hits at 650 with Chinese copper wash in a pre-'07 heel stamped norinco rifle.

The problem arises when the 147gr projectile drops below the speed of sound and you loose your dope. I believe the FMJs tumble and then just fall outta the sky. I have very similar problems with the 168 SMK @ 800. At 800 repeatable hits, at 850-900 nothing.... the cure? Push them faster. Or switch to heavier projectiles with better BC.

Both of these options are hell on your gas system and reciprocating mass.

Cheap and dirty solution, drill a .040" hole in the end of the gas plug. This will vent a minimum of 2000 psi from the gas cylinder. Down side, your rifle will no longer operate with NATO ammo.

Slightly more expensive solution, buy a Schuster adjustable gas plug from brownelles. This will only work if you have an American threaded gas cylinder.... so if you currently have a chi-com gas cylinder, you'll be looking to upgrade that too!

Build your hand load with the gas turned off, this will give you a very good idea of where your pressure limitations are. Good reloading techniques will net decent brass life. (Neck sizing, or minimal FLRS of the brass so you are not working brass too much).

That's pretty much all I can think of right this second, but I will say this. I wouldnt start match handloading for long range with a M-14 pattern rifle. I'd learn the basics and the do's & dont's on a bolt gun, then transfer the knowledge to the '14.

My $.02
John
Click to expand...

John do you have any experience running a gas piston like the Sadlak NM Grooved one? I'll admit I'm fully committed to bolt guns these days (shooting precision rifle matches down South) but when I get some extra time, I'd like to push my M14 out to distance. My current load, although quite accurate, is a 168 gr at about 2625 fps and I don't think it'll perform much past 800. As I understand it, the grooved piston lets you push a 175 (or 185 but I don't have the twist for it) without damage to your gas system (I have a USGI gas system so no fitment issues with an aftermarket piston).
 
rugbydave said:
John do you have any experience running a gas piston like the Sadlak NM Grooved one? I'll admit I'm fully committed to bolt guns these days (shooting precision rifle matches down South) but when I get some extra time, I'd like to push my M14 out to distance. My current load, although quite accurate, is a 168 gr at about 2625 fps and I don't think it'll perform much past 800. As I understand it, the grooved piston lets you push a 175 (or 185 but I don't have the twist for it) without damage to your gas system (I have a USGI gas system so no fitment issues with an aftermarket piston).
Click to expand...

Recently I've come across a couple for the Sadlak groved pistons on customer rifles. I've never actually owned one myself.

Generally, they seem to do pretty well. The most common issue that seems to crop up is short stroking. The piston works well so well at limiting over pressure that quite often it won't cycle the action fully with NATO spec ammo.

IMHO the Sadlak piston would be a nice upgrade if you are planning on pushing heavier projectiles at velocities that will net a supersonic projectile at 1000. I also believe the best bang for your buck would be a schuster adjustable gas plug. The combo of the 2 would be pretty hard to beat.

John
 
m14medic.ca said:
IMHO the Sadlak piston would be a nice upgrade if you are planning on pushing heavier projectiles at velocities that will net a supersonic projectile at 1000. I also believe the best bang for your buck would be a schuster adjustable gas plug. The combo of the 2 would be pretty hard to beat.
Click to expand...

John, I was under the impression that the Schuster adjustable gas plug can't cross our border due to their lack of the appropriate manufacturer's export license. Is that incorrect?

I have both the Schuster adjustable gas plug and the Sadlak national match grooved gas piston, and can confirm from personal experience that the combination of the two does provide for an easy infinitely adjustable gas system. I shoot surplus that's loaded hot from the factory, and these parts are very helpful to reduce component wear in that situation as well. Just don't expect great wear resistance from the Sadlak titanium nitride coating, or any support from Sadlak Industries whatsoever in Canada. :mad:
 
Sh0ckw4v3 said:
John, I was under the impression that the Schuster adjustable gas plug can't cross our border due to their lack of the appropriate manufacturer's export license. Is that incorrect?

I have both the Schuster adjustable gas plug and the Sadlak national match grooved gas piston, and can confirm from personal experience that the combination of the two does provide for an easy infinitely adjustable gas system. I shoot surplus that's loaded hot from the factory, and these parts are very helpful to reduce component wear in that situation as well. Just don't expect great wear resistance from the Sadlak titanium nitride coating, or any support from Sadlak Industries whatsoever in Canada. :mad:
Click to expand...

The Schuster plugs are available from Brownelles, and I can confirm that, as of 5 weeks ago anyway, they ship the part to Canada.

I will refrain from commenting on the Sadlak Ti piston....

John
 
I had a Schuster. Seemed the only setting that would cycle the action was fully closed. I gave up on it.

M
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom