M14, m305, m1a differences?

Jdiep

Jdiep

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Hey .
I was thinkin about getting a m14, when I started looking I saw that norinco had a m305. And there was a m1a and z m14. What's the difference between them? Are they all essentially the same? I read something online about a forge receiver in m14 and a machined in m1a and m14 could be selective for full auto but I don't think that can be in canada. Any info would be appreciated thanks
 
The M14 is the rifle used by the United States of America's military forces (US, Rifle, 7.62 mm, M14). M1A is a civilian version of that rifle made without the select fire option by the CIVILIAN Springfield Armory, Inc. . The M305 is a cheap PRC copy of the M1A. The terms "M14" and "M1A" are used by uninform people to describe any semi-automatic only look-a-like of the real M14.
 
Original GI M14 Parts are more likely to fit a Norinco M305 than a Springfield M1A. The fit and finish on Springfields is leagues ahead of Norinco, but the method of manufacturing is different. Norinco uses forged recievers and op-rods, whereas Springfield uses investment cast versions, which is good enough, but not as good. In terms of dimensions, the Norinco is an exact copy of a US Army issued M14, minus the select fire capability. That is important when you want to talk about parts interchange, as USGI parts should be a direct fit, which they are. The quality of the reciever alone matches original M1 Garands, both are file hard. If it weren't for the difference in bolt length, the M305 bolt would lock up perfectly in an M1 Garand, I've tried, it goes in but stops short of locking for obvious reasons.

This is why, when faced with building a Norinco or buying a Springfield, many Canadians will choose the Norinco as the base rifle is technically better to build on. When you factor in the cost of USGI or aftermarket parts to make the Norinco as "good" as a Springfield, you're still spending less on the Norinco overall.

Some people might be saying "BUT JUICY FRUIT, AMERICANS CHOOSE SPRINGFIELDS", and that is true, because they can't get M305's.
 
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Jdiep said:
Wow thank you so much great info :) what rounds do they take 308? Or a military surplus round or both.?
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If it's marked 7.62 on the side of the reciever, I'd stick to using surplus 7.62x51 NATO. If it says Cal .308 on the side, I'd feel confident using both. Commercial .308 generally creates higher chamber pressures than surplus 7.62x51, the brass is thicker on the NATO side, with less powder charge. It is my understanding that the 7.62 marked guns were earlier imports based on the original cartridge, which was changed later on due to the greater availability of .308 domestically (the only difference is in the chamber).

For instance, I've shot 7.62x51 out of my CZ 557 which was chambered in .308, the headspace was tighter with the NATO round, with only a couple refusing to lock (it's surplus after all!).
 
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The original tooling was originally actually sold/given to Taiwan, not mainland China. Norinco /PRC is actually mainland China. They are different entities altogether, the Norinco M305 is technically more similar as stated but was nit made on the original tooling. I was misinformed once and corrected my another my guru on a similar post a few years ago as well. The my was jus rengineereed from a battlefield capture as the Chinese are so good at copying and making knockoffs.
 
JuicyFruit said:
Original GI M14 Parts are more likely to fit a Norinco M305 than a Springfield M1A. For all intents and purposes, Springfield is actually the one making the clone or knock off. The fit and finish on Springfields is leagues ahead of Norinco, but the method of manufacturing is different. Norinco uses forged recievers and op-rods, whereas Springfield uses investment cast versions, which is good enough, but not as good. In terms of dimensions, the Norinco is an exact copy of a US Army issued M14, minus the select fire capability, because it is built on THE original tooling. That is important when you want to talk about parts interchange, as USGI parts should be a direct fit, which they are. The quality of the reciever alone matches original M1 Garands, both are file hard. If it weren't for the difference in bolt length, the M305 bolt would lock up perfectly in an M1 Garand, I've tried, it goes in but stops short of locking for obvious reasons.

This is why, when faced with building a Norinco or buying a Springfield, many Canadians will choose the Norinco as the base rifle is technically better to build on. When you factor in the cost of USGI or aftermarket parts to make the Norinco as "good" as a Springfield, you're still spending less on the Norinco overall.

Some people might be saying "BUT JUICY FRUIT, AMERICANS CHOOSE SPRINGFIELDS", and that is true, because they can't get M305's.
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Geez.... You'd think the "myth" that the Chinese are using the "old USGI tooling" to build M-305, M-305b and M-14S rifles would stop..... Especially since it is widely know to be mis-information. The Chinese did not buy the tooling for M-14 rifles when it was surplused off.

Other than that little bit of info, the rest of the post is correct. I will add one more little tid-bit of info;

When a person looks at gunbrokers web site to gauge what is happening price wise in the American market with M-14 pattern rifles, you notice that Norinco receivers generally sell for $1000-$1500. SAI, LRB etc usually sell for $500-$900. So I would have to extrapolate that even the Americans would rather have a forged Chinese receiver than a cast American receiver.
 
walleyed99 said:
The original tooling was originally actually sold/given to Taiwan, not mainland China. Norinco /PRC is actually mainland China. They are different entities altogether, the Norinco M305 is technically more similar as stated but was nit made on the original tooling. I was misinformed once and corrected my another my guru on a similar post a few years ago as well. The my was jus rengineereed from a battlefield capture as the Chinese are so good at copying and making knockoffs.
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notsorichguy said:
Geez.... You'd think the "myth" that the Chinese are using the "old USGI tooling" to build M-305, M-305b and M-14S rifles would stop..... Especially since it is widely know to be mis-information. The Chinese did not buy the tooling for M-14 rifles when it was surplused off.
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Well you learn something new every day, I guess it's no surprise why original parts fit given that info. I've amended my post to reflect this.

I've also found a good resource that matches the info you guys gave;

https://stricklandwu.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/history-of-the-chinese-m14-cloneszt/
 
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The M14, M1As are imperial while the Norinco is metric. Another factor is the price, Norinco $699, M1A $2500, LRB $4300
 
Quality varies in Norinco, and Springfield as I have seen beautiful pieces from both(In Norc its in the eye of the beholder) but the few LRS's I have held were beautiful firearms. That said I have had a Beautiful shorty Norc(after a Tachtical teacher clinic) and a complete turd of a Norc(Out of spec sight pocket, bad indexing but man did it shoot). At the first Bootstrap prairie M14 clinic held here in Sask we had a Springer that the heel piece was so out of spec that there was a noticeable tilt to it. That said my NM M1a is a beauty and shoots amazing as long as I do my part. It depends what you are after in rifle a shooter, or a collectors piece.

As well as the 3 mentioned above there is also JRA(James River Armoury), Fulton Arms, and Smith Enterprises that build M14 pattern rifles and can be found. This board is a great wealth of knowledge, all you have to do is ask!!
 
Jdiep said:
Hey .
I was thinkin about getting a m14, when I started looking I saw that norinco had a m305. And there was a m1a and z m14. What's the difference between them? Are they all essentially the same? I read something online about a forge receiver in m14 and a machined in m1a and m14 could be selective for full auto but I don't think that can be in canada. Any info would be appreciated thanks
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All this information is good, but there are a few more things you should be told. The M305 is basically a very good gun, but like many Chinese products they can have quality control issues. I have three of the shorty M305s and they are all good, but some people have run into problems with barrel indexing and gas tube install and generally poorly done assembly of parts. ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS ARE USUALLY EASY TO FIX, and the M305 is a great gun to tinker with, if you are into that sort of thing. However you can't really be sure that these rifles will be trouble-free great shooters right out of the box. All my rifles have after-market rear sights and op rod guide rods, for eg. but otherwise needed very little work to get them running in top form. There is a wealth of information on how to tweak and tune a M305 in the 'sticky' posts right here in the Battle Rifle forum...give them a look to see what you might be getting into.

This is not meant to discourage you from getting into this platform. It's rare that anybody has a really bad experience with one of these rifles unless they are very unlucky or have unrealistic expectations about what they will do. Deal with a vendor who warrantees their product and you'll be safe from getting stuck with a real lemon. Know that the M1A/M14/M305 platform is not going to be a MOA tackdriver without a whole lot of work as well...if your rifle shoots 2-3" at 100 yards, that's enough to be satisfied with.

Finally, keep in mind that the longer barreled rifles [ie. 22"] seem to exhibit fewer problems than the shorties [18.5"]. I've been lucky with mine, but some vendors won't sell the shorties for this reason. This might be worth keeping in consideration when you go shopping. Good luck! These are really fun rifles even if you have to put a bit of work into them to bring out their potential. Buy two!
 
Jdiep, do yourself a HUGE favor and get your a$$ to Tactitical teachers clinic in Calgary. Make time, take the day off, do whatever it takes. What you learn in that 7-8 hour time frame will be invaluable!!
 
Tengoo said:
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Finally, keep in mind that the longer barreled rifles [ie. 22"] seem to exhibit fewer problems than the shorties [18.5"]. I've been lucky with mine, but some vendors won't sell the shorties for this reason. This might be worth keeping in consideration when you go shopping. Good luck! These are really fun rifles even if you have to put a bit of work into them to bring out their potential. Buy two!
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What are the problems the short barreled have that the longer doesn't?
 
JuicyFruit said:
Original GI M14 Parts are more likely to fit a Norinco M305 than a Springfield M1A. The fit and finish on Springfields is leagues ahead of Norinco, but the method of manufacturing is different. Norinco uses forged recievers and op-rods, whereas Springfield uses investment cast versions, which is good enough, but not as good. In terms of dimensions, the Norinco is an exact copy of a US Army issued M14, minus the select fire capability. That is important when you want to talk about parts interchange, as USGI parts should be a direct fit, which they are. The quality of the reciever alone matches original M1 Garands, both are file hard. If it weren't for the difference in bolt length, the M305 bolt would lock up perfectly in an M1 Garand, I've tried, it goes in but stops short of locking for obvious reasons.

This is why, when faced with building a Norinco or buying a Springfield, many Canadians will choose the Norinco as the base rifle is technically better to build on. When you factor in the cost of USGI or aftermarket parts to make the Norinco as "good" as a Springfield, you're still spending less on the Norinco overall.

Some people might be saying "BUT JUICY FRUIT, AMERICANS CHOOSE SPRINGFIELDS", and that is true, because they can't get M305's.
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I guess you know everything about M1A/M14/M305Laugh2Laugh2 M14 USGI parts are a direst replacement for the US made LRB /Springfield and other Civilian made copies . Yes there are differences on the dimensions on the M305 receivers , some threads are on the M305 are close enough to work but may or may not damage the threads on the M305 as there quality control seems to be all over the place on them the Chinese use metric and the US uses standard inch . There is nothing wrong with the cast receiver from Springfield vs forged there is a lot myth surrounds this topic so I wont go into it . At the end of the day you get what you pay for the 305 will go bang every time you pull the trigger it will shoot cheap steel cased ammo and when it goes KABOOM your not out a lot of money just your pride is hurt .
 
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