M14/M305/M1A Test after assembly

It's a small thing, but it's important.

Longshot, I'm so glad for you that you were able to fix that fit problem.

FYI: I make it a point to perform that safety/function check every time I reassemble my M-14 after cleaning.
I think it's a good habit to get into--it only takes a few seconds, and it could save a lot of tears and heartache.
It always gives me some added peace of mind to know that things are working as they should down there in the engine room as I'm about to squeeze the trigger.
Cheers!
SL
 
A quick question on accuracy, in regards to the norinco m14 if you were deer hunting and you had a trophy buck lined up at 400 yards is the norinco accurate enough to take the shot?

Thanks in advance.
 
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BigMoe I agree with you , however each rifle in every case semi auto or bolt , lever or pump is going to be different.

its always going to be case by case scenerio.

their is always going to be cases where someone has a certain rifle and it shoots way sub moa.

and there is going to be others where its way over moa.

its luck and accurizing.

some things can be fixed some cant it all depends on the rifle.

then the shooter hopefully being capable of best accuracy has his own things to deal with.
 
I've built and hunted with many of these rifles in various configs.
I'll be the first to tell you that conditions would have to be darn near perfect for any shooter, regardless of experience, to cleanly take a buck of any stature at 400 yards with an M14 type rifle. Sure it can be done but I'd hazard to say that neither the platform nor the caliber, would be my choice for making 400 yard clean kill shots on a deer sized animal. Coyotes and wolves.... I've seen it done with one of my rifles. Well, 365 yards and I wasn't on the trigger. One shot, one dead coyote on the ice ;)
You want 400 yard kill shots, take Tactical Teacher's (an UBER experienced shooter) repeated advice and buy a bolt gun. I'd suggest a 7mm rem mag for the requirements you mention.
 
I doubt it.

bigmoe said:
That's not really what I asked. I was very accurate with the FN C1 back in the day of military shooting. So I crave another accurate semi auto. Twenty years military, I can hold my own, what about you!
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Whoa, Moe! It was never my intention to impugn your marksmanship. Better marksmen will score better than average marksmen, but I doubt there are many semi-auto rifles that would be capable of that first round kill shot at 400 yards using iron sights. If it were me, I wouldn't chance it because of the likelihood of wounding that prize buck and watching it bound off into the brush. I do have a rifle capable of making that shot, but it's not an M-14.
Back in my Army days, I trained on the M-1 ('Garand') then got the M-14 as my issue rifle. I qualified "Expert" with every weapon I could get my hands on from the 1911 to the 105mm tank gun. With an M-14 I was usually lucky enough to put down sills at 300-350m with the aperture sight. Not any more :)0| My 70+ year old eyes can't see well enough thru that aperture, so I've been reduced to using a scope for all my precision shooting. Well, be that as it may...
OK, how about this? Back (as you say) in 'the day' I was very accurate if I had a decent weapon. Now (50 years on) I don't shoot as well as I did when I was in my 20s. That's just the sad fact of it. Nowadays I need artificial aids (ie scope) to acheive the same results. Also, "your results may differ"--I've had three Norky M-14s over the past few years--one was "just OK", one was such a total POS that I returned it for a full refund, but the one I've got now (the first of the bunch) is an absolute beauty! When it comes to Norky shopping, it's 'buyer beware'!

Others will no doubt say otherwise, but my short answer is "No", I don't think any standard M-14 is capable of dependably making the type of shot you would be asking of it. A humane kill at 400 yd every time with irons? You might get lucky, but it's not worth the gamble. Get closer or go home and talk about "the one that got away".
Cheers
 
So chalk up another M305 repaired using post #5. I had a feeling it was in that area but this thread confirmed my suspicion. My plastic stock was fine but when i switched to the USGI wood it developed the issue.
Used a dremel and took a very slight amount off and voila catches every time.
thanks all!
 
Why are these rifles allowed to be imported and sold if they have such extreme quality control issues?
I would think that if it fired full auto because the trigger group fits too tightly in the stock you would still be charged with possession of a prohibited device.
Furthermore if they are prone to out of battery detonation of cartridge why are people still buying these things?
 
Hammer-follow is a malfunction caused by the trigger group not seating closely enough to the action, it doesn't make the rifle a prohibited full-auto. The potential for this malfunction exists in all M-14-pattern and M1 Garand rifles, which is why a test-after-assembly is standard procedure.

All semi-auto rifles with floating firing pins (M-14-pattern, M1, AR-15, SKS, etc.) can and sometimes do have out of battery detonations, whether due to out-of-spec parts or out-of-spec ammo. It's a very rare occurrence but it's important to know how the rifle functions and the mechanisms by which an OOB detonation might occur so that you can minimize the risks.

People buy them because most of the QC issues are minor annoyances or cosmetic issues, and they're a hoot to tinker with and shoot.

Welcome to the forum :)
 
Consider it a kit.

Pop said:
People buy them because most of the QC issues are minor annoyances or cosmetic issues, and they're a hoot to tinker with and shoot.
:)
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:agree:
Well spoken, sir! Somehow buyers have to know that these guns (and some others) are not perfect right from the box. Experienced collectors have learned not to expect manufacturing perfection from this design, but we've made them work well by recognizing their failings and learning how to correct them.
Northstar, I know your pain and frustration. I felt it with my first Norky and again when I picked up my second one, but I continued the work, and my rifle's functioning has improved with each minor improvement I made. I attended seminars and met gunsmiths who specialize in the M-14 platform.
As a result I've gained a more intimate knowledge of this design than I have with any of the other guns in my collection. Admittedly, it requires some mechanical aptitude of the owner and it's a good thing if the owner has a passion for tinkering and finding out how things work.
Maybe there ought to be a label affixed to the outside of the box with phrases like the old "SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED":

WARNING! READ ENCLOSED REPAIR MANUAL BEFORE LOADING!
or MAY NOT FUNCTION EXACTLY AS EXPECTED.
Consider your new rifle as a "project gun", a "kit", that has all the potential to become an excellent rifle with a bit of understanding and TLC from you.

I have found this CGN forum to be a tremendously valuable resource with knowledgable and helpful members just a mouse-click away. They are my go-to guys whenever I need to have some vexing question answered promptly.
If you choose to continue on with your project, you may well find it to be more rewarding than you thought possible.
All the best,
SL
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Northstarr said:
Why are these rifles allowed to be imported and sold if they have such extreme quality control issues?
I would think that if it fired full auto because the trigger group fits too tightly in the stock you would still be charged with possession of a prohibited device.
Furthermore if they are prone to out of battery detonation of cartridge why are people still buying these things?
Click to expand...

They generally function properly on leaving the factory. Most of the issues are cosmetic.
The more serious issues occur when trying to fit a new part such as a new stock. Then some "fitting" is required.
 
Morpheus32 said:
Gents,

With all the people upgrading their M305s, I though I would add a reminder for a test after assembly safety check. Whenever you take apart your rifle, swap out the stock or trigger or parts, you should conduct a simple test after assembly.

Firstly, ensure it is unloaded, pull the charging handle to the rear and release. The hammer should be locked to the rear. Place the safety on, and try to pull the trigger. You should not be able to make the hammer release despite moderate pressure. Now take the rifle off safe, pull the trigger...the hammer should be released and make contact with the bolt. Now keeping the trigger pulled to the rear, while pulling the chargin handle to the rear and release...keeping the trigger pulled to the rear and hold. The hammer should be caught by the sear and be locked to the rear. Fire the action, keep the trigger to the rear and cycle the action 4 or 5 times again. The hammer should be engaged by the sear initially and remain locked down. Now with the hammer fully back and engaged by the sear....slowly release the trigger, the hammer should come off the sear and be engaged by the trigger. Pull the trigger and the action should fire.

If at any time the hammer does not engage as noted or fires with the safety on, you have a problem and should not fire your rifle. The problem can be the trigger group parts, the relationship with the stock and the trigger/receiver.

I bring this up as I have a rather troublesome M305 that will fail this test when I use a number of different stocks. If the sear will not catch the hammer...well lets just say it would be interesting....you could have an out of battery firing or the rifle go full auto. It would be extremely dangerous and an out of battery firing could allow you to pack your rifle home in a shoe box...as you come back from the hospital

Jeff
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Last statement MAY not be entirely true. When I mounted my ChiCom M305 in a SageEBR stock it failed the hammer safety test. Concerned I called the people at Sage and spoke with their tech rep. He stated that the hammer safety test is not an indicator of an unsafe condition in this rifle. They have been through this question many times. I fired my M305 in this condition for a little over 1000 rounds using both 7.62X51 NATO Chinese ammo and ammo that I reloaded. I had no out of battery issues. Go figure?
 
Hmmm... But if it fails the test, that must mean that the sear has failed to catch the hammer when it's forced back by the bolt during recoil,
so when the bolt returns to battery, the hammer follows it forward instead of remaining in the cocked position.
If that's what occurs in your weapon, how can you fire the next round without manually recocking the hammer (and ejecting the recently chambered
round)? With luck you may not have a runaway gun, but I cannot understand how you could have semi-automatic cycling if it had failed the 'Test after Assembly.'
 
Damn. Wish I had read this yesterday. That is exactly what happened with my M305 after switching out with a USGI wood stock. I had also changed the guide rod and thought that was the problem first. Nope. After returning home the second time I noticed the difference in the install of the trigger group and did the dry fire tests with both stocks. 100% failure with the USGI, and 100% catch with the Norinco stock. Never considered the out of battery. Fortunately nothing went wrong. Also, interestingly enough, mine only did not catch the sear when I started with an odd number of rounds in the mag. I think that when the bolt retracted with the round remaining on the left side of the mag that it pushed the bolt far enough to the right that it didn't push down on the high part of the hammer enough to lock it in. I will try the fix today hopefully...
 
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