M14 op rod rubbing on sight agustment knobs

204mike

204mike

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Hi I'm new to this rifle. I just purchased it 2 days ago after a good cleaning I noticed that my op rod has a lot of slop in it! The handle on it for the action is rubbing against the sight adjustment knobs.. Haven't fired it yet I'm planing on taking it back to the store on teusday. Help please!
 
Post pics please!!!

There's no way that operating rod should be rubbing on the sight adjustment knobs.

It's either assembled wrong, or the op rod is seriously bent. Do NOT fire that rifle!!
 
It sounds like the op rod tab is not in the guide track properly. Did you disassemble the rifle when you cleaned it?

As already noted, pictures are the best description for trouble shooting problems.
 
Thanks for the reply. I was in no way going to fire it! Can't post pics for a bit but I will! It was also really hard to open the action with a mag in it..
 
Yeah I did dis assemble it but even before I took it apart it was doing that! From what it looks like it looks like it sits in the track and then when the action is locked open it slides out of the track. It's engaged when the closed and all the way through te action when opening. But when it's locked open that's when it gets sloppy.
 
Ok so I had my m305 exchanges for another one after going through 6 of them in the store I found one that didn't have the same problem. Problem is now this ones barrel indexing is off and it has a loose op rod guide.. Beginning to regret buying this gun. The barrel is just slightly under indexed. And I called a local gunsmith and was told he could do nothing to index it properly with out messing up the head space.is this true? I'm thinking I might just fix the op rod guide myself.
 
Headspace may be on the generous side to begin with. That or you can lap the bolt to get back to spec. Can't remember the numbers but turning the barrel does not change headspace as fast as one would imagine. But then why should you have to.
 
Exactly.. I have to because that store has a crappy run of m305's.. Should I just tell them to send back for a warranty??
 
Where are you located 204...indexing a barrel is easy if you have a barrel vice (which I do )
And a loose op rod guide is easy to fix all you need is a center punch and some red Loctite.
If you are nearby (Chalkriver Ont area) I can sort it out for you .
TacticalTeacher has private sessions which I highly recommend but he is near Georgian Bay
 
Thanks I really appreciate the offer but I'm in Winnipeg. So if I tighten the barrel I won't loose the required head space? My barrel is just ever so slightly out. Do you think it's going to make a huge difference on accuracy? I know the op rod guide is a easy fix I'm just a little nervous about doing it myself.
 
It has been my experience with the factory shorties that there is a 30-40% "melt it down for scrap its NFG" rate. Bad (read dangerous) safety bridges, out of spec bolts, 10-15 degrees off TDC..... I have yet to see a shorty that wasn't at least 3 degrees off TDC.

The Marstar rifles on the other hand are usually no more than 3 off TDC, have in spec bolts and saftey bridges that are in spec.

I tell everyone that will listen not to buy a shorty, unless you can do a full tear down and REALLY look it over. I tell all those that care to ask, to buy a Marstar rifle and cut it down if they want a short one......

I have literally tried to sound the alarm about the current crop of shorties so many times, that I am "virtually" hoarse....

notsorichguy said:
My experience with them is you got REALLY lucky....

The local gun store doesn't have a fully licensed smith in the back. The fella filling in is a great fella, but a smith he isn't, he is a military trained armorer and a life long gun nut, so he knows quite a bit and is willing to tackle almost anything. Most of the precision milling and turning is tasked to another fella who comes in on weekends (he's a machinist) and I get called in to work on ARs and M-14 pattern rifles. There are also a couple of other fellas who come in to help out.

The owner of the store has received a total of 100+ m-14 pattern rifles, 60-70 of them being shorties, in from distributors in the last 18 months. He was selling them right outta the box, but called me in when he was seeing 1 in 3 returned for warranty work.

I have personally taken 50+ BNIB shorties out of the box, and done a full tear down. 20, repeat 20 were sent back to the distributor as "unsafe to fire". Another 15-20 were safe to fire, but pretty much parts guns IMHO.

YMMV
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notsorichguy said:
The M-14.ca muzzle device is a treat! I highly recommend one.

As for chopping your barrel, I say do-it! :D or buy another Marstar rifle and chop it. I don't recommend buying a DA socom unless you can look it over real good (full tear down) in store to examine it. With the current crop of shorty's, pay very close attention to the receiver bridge, bolt lug undercuts, bolt roller and barrel indexing.....

Cheers!
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notsorichguy said:
Not neccissarily.....

Marstar is an importer. They do QC on each and every single rifle they sell.

All other "sellers" selling M305 or m-14 type rifles (afaik) get their rifles from one of 3 distributors.

Those distributors do no, repeat, no (or very little) QC......

So you may get a decent rifle or a steaming Pile of S.....

Marstar is the only current seller with a guaranteed warranty. All other sellers may or may not warranty the rifle on s case by case basis.

In a different thread, a few years back, on M-305 rifles Johnone stated that they know for a fact, that rifles they DQ'd (failed their QC testing) in China were then sold to a different distributor, sight unseen, shipped to Canada and sold......

Unless I can buy a rifle for a song, or do my own QC check on it before purchase, I will not buy a M-14 from any other supplier.....

I've personally had 3-4 dozen M-14 pattern rifles apart and tweaked or tuned.... The difference between a Marstar rifle and one from the LGS or one of a number of different suppliers is glaringly obvious!

Marstar rifles by and large need no tweaking. A gas shim and an op-rod guide and done. Even the sights are usually problem free!

Everyone else seems to need barrel indexing etc etc.....

Marstar doesn't sell shorties. According to Johnone (again in a different thread), they DQ'd almost every single Shortie they looked at...... So they did not bring any in.

So that is reason #1 why I will not buy a Shortie mail-order......

My $.02.
Ymmv
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notsorichguy said:
Theres a reason Marstar doesn't sell the shorties....

They QC all their rifles before shipping them to Canada.... Apparently (from a post by Johnone) very few 18.5" rifles passed their "tests", so they didn't bring any in....

I myself am a little disappointed in the quality of the current crop of the shorties currently available.... I went through 12 rifles at the LGS (I was buying one for a friend), only 2 were what I consider "worth owning" (and then only after 3 hrs at the bench), 5 were unsafe to shoot or inoperable from the box.....

Marstar at least has a fairly exhaustive QC protocol in place to ensure the rifle is in spec and safe to operate....
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notsorichguy said:
As previously posted:
Barrel indexing
Poor finishes

I will add;
Out of spec bolts
Headspace around 1.639+

IMVHO if I was building a shorty today, for myself..... I would cut down a Marstar 22".....

My $.02
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notsorichguy said:
Read this before you decide to spend the $$ on a Springer.....

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1283498-SAI-Re-worked

IF you want an M-305 that doesn't need a bunch of tweaking..... Buy from marstar.

http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=85814

If you want a M-305 for a couple of bucks less, buy from anybody else out there, but you have a 50/50 chance of "alignment" issues....

Marstar is the only Importer of Chinese manufactured M-14 Pattern rifles that does a full QC check on rifles before they are shipped form China..... Everyone else seems to take their chances once they hit our shores. I have seen 3 NIB rifles at a local retailer (Admittedly I was doing QC checks for said retailer before they sold them) that had bolts that would drop below the safety bridge under normal operation. I have seem NIB rifles with barrels 6+ degrees over and under indexed. I have had over a dozen rifles from Marstar come across my bench..... Not a single one had a problem!

SAI does not have a warranty centre in Canada. Period. Full stop. This means you basically have no warranty on a SAI rifle (I suppose you could spend $300 to Export it from Canada to the US, and then spend an additional $300+ to Import it back into Canada). If you live in the US, at any point in the lifespan of a SAI rifle, you can send it to Springfield and they will fix anything that may be wrong with it. For the price of the parts or under warranty (as the case may be).

I am currently at 7 M-14 pattern rifles in the lock-up (one is soon going to a new home). One of them is a springer, the rest are norks. The ONLY thing SAI does better than a NIB M-305B from Marstar is the Parkerizing job, and the SAI (in some cases) comes with a Boyds Walnut stock.

My $.02
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And that is just from the last 8 weeks or so.......

I think I'll just give up.
 
To be completely frank, you did good.

You were able to look over several rifles, and you picked out the best one you could.

Barrel indexing on USGI original rack grade rifle was considered "in spec" at 4 degrees over or under index. NM match rifles were held to MUCH higher standards!

I wouldn't be to concerned about it.

My only recommendation at this point is please please for the love of all that is holy, don't Loc-tite your op-rod guide, unless you re-index the barrel....

Side note;
I just finished taking apart a rifle I took in trade this weekend at the local gun show. It was in a beautiful Troy chassis. The previous owner "fixed" his loose op-rod guide via the peening the barrel and red Loc-tite method. But his barrel is 3 degrees over index.... So I destroyed the op-guide taking it off..... A pain in the bum, to say the least.

My advice is to peen the barrel, lock the op-rod guide in place temporarily (so you can shoot it) until you decide if it really bothers you that much to re-index the barrel.

By all means shoot the thing, even if the op-rod guide is loose. You ain't gunna hurt it, short term.

Cheers!
 
204mike said:
Thanks I really appreciate the offer but I'm in Winnipeg. So if I tighten the barrel I won't loose the required head space? My barrel is just ever so slightly out. Do you think it's going to make a huge difference on accuracy? I know the op rod guide is a easy fix I'm just a little nervous about doing it myself.
Click to expand...

These are battle rifles with a generous headspace so they work in adverse conditions. Yours is under indexed and tightening it a bit to get it indexed correctly will only decrease the headspace a tiny bit.

If you pay for the shipping I would fix it for you for free...does your gas locking ring get nice and tight before the 6:00 position...if not you need it shimmed or once the flashider is off try flipping the gas locking ring over and reinstalling it.

Read the stickies at the top of this forum...tons of good info there.
 
Thanks you guys are a ton of help for a new m305 owner! Some really good people on here! Haven't took it apart yet. I was too busy playing mr mom last night. But I did take a look at it and noticed the Safty dosnt engage... So once again heading back to the stope today and going to see what happens.. Many they can just switch out the trigger group. We will see if not I might swap the whole thing out for a 22" one don't really want to tho.
 
The safety wont engage unless its cocked and some are pretty stiff .
As well the trigger group has a serial number on the side of it that should match the rifles # on the receiver .
 
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