M14 questions from a noob

Reflex_84

Reflex_84

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I hope this post finds everyone doing well. I believe this is my second post on CGN.

I am really intereste in the M14 style rifle, and have spent some time going through the old posts provided here, but have seem to come away with more questions than answers.

First things first, buying one. I live in Ontario, just outside Barrie. I see that Ellwood Epps has many for sale, but at $529. Than i see that Marstar has them on pre-order for $429. Would i be better off to pre-order and wait? Also the Marstar M305b is chambered in 7.62-51. Can i fire a .308 win from it? Epps says theirs are chambered in .308.

Next. I have read about op rods and spring, gas cylinders, chambers, and more stuff than i can remember. I plan on using it for light hunting and casual target shooting. Do i really need to upgrade all the internals of the rifle? Or is it going to be fine out of the box. Or should i upgragde the oprod and spring?

Then what about the headspace, shimming, and welding, is all that nesessary too?

Basically for what i am wanting to do, what would you recommend?

Sorry if this has dragged on, these are all the questions i have for now, but i'm sure more will come up later.

Thank you everyone.

Aaryn
 
Out of the box, the rifle will work just fine. To shoot it you won't need to upgrade any part.

However no chinese m14 is the same, you might get a fine one or may get a not so fine one depending on a lot of parameters...

For instance, the rear sight, some people here had theirs unfunctionnal. You can still shoot with that kind of sight, but adjusting it would be hard or next to hopeless. You can switch if for any M14, M1 garand or BM59 sight if you need.

Even the front sight might have a problem, not the sight itself but the base which is machined on the flash suppressor, one of mine (and I'm not alone) had a norinco friday special flash suppressor, the particular model that the sight base is canted on the right at about 40 degrees. Maybe the sight of it is funny, but being uncapable to put rounds on the paper at 25 yards isn't. The new polytech seems better made in that regard (they even have the bayonet lug on the suppressor). If you want/need to remove the suppressor, think about chopping the barrel at 18.5", it makes the rifle a lot more handier. Unless you are shooting at long range, the shorter barrel won't make a difference. You'd have to use a gas lock front sight though.

About the Operating rod and spring, they are fine and the rod is usually very well made. For the gas system, they are a bit on the rough side but still work as advertised, just keep an eye on the roll pin of the spindle valve, sometimes they break and launch the valve away and the rifle won't cycle.

You might have read about a tighter op rod guide, shimming the front band, welding the front band, match op rod spring guide; these are not for function as per say, but more for enhancing the accuracy. You might get a very accurate rifle out of the box, if you wish to make it better, there are a lot a ways; enjoy the addiction :D

All M14s are marked .308, chamber size may differ; you might get a tight one or a looser one... Does having a larger headspace bad? Well its a matter of debate, but I shot quite a bit of commercial ammunition through a pair of m14 there have roomy chambers and still live to tell the tale (and i'm not alone), I say stay cool! Hungry and others might give their 2 cents here.

While talking about ammunition, on a stock m14 you have to respect its limit of what it can digest. If you buy commercial ammunition, stay away from the heavier grain bullets like the 180's, stay within 147-168gr. The powder used with the heavies might have a slower burn rate that may give a too high port pressure that would beat up the oprod and end up bending it. If you absolutly need to use heavier grain ammo, then you'll have to swap parts, US made gas cylinder, an ajustable gas plug and a USGI spec piston OR a USGI spec plug and a grooved piston for the heavies and a USGI spec piston for "normal" ammo. If you load you own, you can use pretty much anything provided that you use the correct powder.

Don't appologize for dragging on, getting a norinco m14 has been a project for many of us, no wonder the MBR forum is dominated by it.

Feel free to ask questions about accessories: stocks, scope mounts, compensators, etc... Whatever you need to know to make YOUR rifle.
 
Hi Aaryn, the interchanging of .308 and 7.62x51 is not a problem at all.
For accuracy you will want to stick to the 7.62, but the differences in the round are quite minor and poses no safety concern.

For what you are wanting to do, out of the box rifle should be fine. If you start noticing problems with failures to eject/feed or the shot is degrading over time and you as a shooter have stayed the same, start looking at replacing parts then..

Edit: Oh, and welcome to the CGN! :)
 
Reflex_84 said:
I hope this post finds everyone doing well. I believe this is my second post on CGN.

Welcome aboard!

I am really intereste in the M14 style rifle, and have spent some time going through the old posts provided here, but have seem to come away with more questions than answers.

They will all be answered on this forum.

First things first, buying one. I live in Ontario, just outside Barrie. I see that Ellwood Epps has many for sale, but at $529. Than i see that Marstar has them on pre-order for $429. Would i be better off to pre-order and wait? Also the Marstar M305b is chambered in 7.62-51. Can i fire a .308 win from it? Epps says theirs are chambered in .308.

Compare the 2 deals. Does the rifle come with a synthetic stock or a wood stock, 1 or 2 mags and whatever else is included, etc. Extra goodies add up and synthetic stocks are more expensive than chu wood.

Next. I have read about op rods and spring, gas cylinders, chambers, and more stuff than i can remember. I plan on using it for light hunting and casual target shooting. Do i really need to upgrade all the internals of the rifle? Or is it going to be fine out of the box. Or should i upgragde the oprod and spring?

Out of the box it should be fine to shoot with a nominal zero at 100 yds. At least of the six I've bought from Marstar, Dark and Wolverine, that has been the case. Fine tuning will be needed of course.

The internals really don't need upgrading. Keep in mind that everything is going to be very tight to begin with. Afterwards, you may decide to swap out for some USGI parts. They are hard to come by and can be expensive.

Whether you go to Marstar or Epps have them field strip the rifle. That is to break it down into the 3 main groups. The "trigger group", "stock group" and "receiver group" then remove the op-rod spring, spring guide, op-rod and bolt. Make sure to pay attention when they do it because that's your first chore when you get home.

After it's field stripped at the store you can check for looseness of the op-rod guide, if the gas piston slides freely in the cylinder and if the piston is going to impact the op-rod squarely. The latter is a basic tell-tale for barrel indexing questions. I have yet to have one.

As for 7.62 x 51 vs .308, I use both. All of the ammo I use are factory loads. FMJ 148 gr 7.62 for sighting in at the range (cheap) and Hornady 150gr .308 SSTs for fine tuning my scope and hunting. I've shot 168 gr in 308 with no problems and conventional wisdom states nothing over 180gr regularly.

Also, do not use round nose lead bullets. The lead will shave off during chambering. When chambering your first round don't ride the op-rod. Pull it back and let it "slam" forward. Do not lubricate the gas cylinder (dry system). Use grease on the bolt, receiver rails and trigger mech contact surfaces.


Then what about the headspace, shimming, and welding, is all that nesessary too?

The headspace should be fine out of the box. Welding the front band to the gas system is called unitizing and some do and some don't Necessary? I have to say no. Shimming may be needed though and it's pretty easy to check

Basically for what i am wanting to do, what would you recommend?

Take it home, clean it up, take it to the range and shoot it. These rifles are great out of the box and you won't have any problems.

Sorry if this has dragged on, these are all the questions i have for now, but i'm sure more will come up later.

Thank you everyone.

Aaryn
Click to expand...

See above
 
The one from Marstar seems to be a better deal, 1 year warranty, and a hard case for $100 less. Both are synthetic stock. Just have to wait for it, and get it past the little lady.

As for op rod looseness, how is it checked. Is it movement to the front and rear, or up and down?
 
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