M14 Scope mount?

[Katana]

1) The only mount that had an issue with jammed cases was the ARMS 18 and a simple change of a spring fixed that. There current version has address that problem with reverting back to the original style, non issue.
2) No Norinco I have ever worked on has had a side hole out of spec, can't say the same for the Springfield.
3) Yup, it will address that problem.
4) Yup, these chinese receivers can be out a bit, +/-5 mins with a triangle file fixes this.
5 )See #1
6) That is the same problem you addressed in #3 & 4
7) Tack weld the side bolt, WTF??? I have never heard of anybody doing this. If the Marine Corps are doing this it's probably cause they take there rifles into the harshest environment know to man. I would bet there isn't a board member here on CGN that could treat there M1A in a lifetime what those those boys do to there equipment in one month.

The major downfall to me about your mount is the complete removal of the rear sight for install. If the scope should fail there is no back up as there is no rear sight anymore to go to. If my scope would ever get messed up on a hunting trip, 2 mins and the optics are off and I'm back in the game with irons. Don't get me wrong I like your mount Frank and what your doing for the M1A community but all your propaganda about it makes it sound like the second coming of christ for M1A's. It's a good mount just like many other out there and your biggest plus is being a Canadian made one.

 

[Mauser GDog]

Tried the CASM but ended up selling it. I found it too tall, and my Gen I version didn't have backup sights. Gen II has the peep hole, but I've never looked down one, seems like a looong peep hole.

Just picked up a Promag remake of the early ARMS 18 split rail version from Jerry at Mystic Precision but haven't mounted it yet, but I'm pumped.
All part of a poor-mans Black Hawk Down project I've been dreaming of. Next on the shopping list, Aimpoint.

 

[Workin Man]

Does the Promag mount sit low enough to use the original rear sight with the optic removed? I haven't decided if I am going to mount a scope on mine or not, but I want to retain the use of the iron sights if I do.

 

[Katana]

Promag make two different one, one is a copy of the Smith 2006 and the other is an ARMS 18 copy. I'll take a pic of mine with my Vortex 6x24x50 with low Warne rings. Mine has the Smith copy mount.

 

[Mauser GDog]

From what I can see, it's a near exact copy of the ARMS, so yes irons should be a go.
Mind you, I've not actually mounted it yet but that's how it's intended to be used.

 

[M14.CA]

1) The only mount that had an issue with jammed cases was the ARMS 18 and a simple change of a spring fixed that.

I appreciate your reply. But I would appreciate it more if you described the "change of the spring" you are referring too. What you mean to say here is you take the bolt apart, change the spring (or alter it) and go back to the range to see if you have fixed the problem with cartridge case jams. You can do that with a 3006 case as described here or you can buy a bolt tool you don't really need.

2) No Norinco I have ever worked on has had a side hole out of spec, can't say the same for the Springfield.

The CASM will work with every M14/M1A receiver made.

3) Yup, it will address that problem.

If you saying that there is a new BPT-based scope mount that requires no shimming "on every M14/M1A receiver" I haven't seen it.

4) Yup, these chinese receivers can be out a bit, +/-5 mins with a triangle file fixes this.

If you could describe this procedure/fix in detail, it may help others who own said scope mounts.

5 )See #1

With due respect sir, you are wrong.

6) That is the same problem you addressed in #3 & 4

Do you believe everyone is willing to work through the problems you have experienced with BPT-based scope mount designs? Most rifleman I have spoken too would prefer that a scope mount works and sets up fast.

7) Tack weld the side bolt, WTF??? I have never heard of anybody doing this. If the Marine Corps are doing this it's probably cause they take there rifles into the harshest environment know to man. I would bet there isn't a board member here on CGN that could treat there M1A in a lifetime what those those boys do to there equipment in one month.

Tack welding the side bolt is described clearly in Lee Emerson's Scope Mount FAQ. We all want a reliable mount and it is not only the Marine Corps that demand it.

The major downfall to me about your mount is the complete removal of the rear sight for install. If the scope should fail there is no back up as there is no rear sight anymore to go to. If my scope would ever get messed up on a hunting trip, 2 mins and the optics are off and I'm back in the game with irons.

The CASM GEN II has a BUS.

Don't get me wrong I like your mount Frank and what your doing for the M1A community but all your propaganda about it makes it sound like the second coming of christ for M1A's.

The history of M14 scope mounts are well-known and I have not said anything that cannot be independently verified. I will submit this recent review for your reflection. I have not said anything about the Second Coming, my customers however will have the last word here. Thank-you for your comments and cheers for the evening...

"Frank the pictures I sent were taken from well known The Best Of the West shooting center in Liberty HIll TX taken June 2nd. The performance of the platform is verified by many witnesses including the Range Officer of the day. The rifle platform which the CASM mount was tested on was a standard Springfield armory M1A with a 18 inch medium weight stainless match barrel in 1/10 twist, make of barrel unknown. the trigger was a tuned NM GI trigger. the stock was a USGI fiberglass stock. the stock was not bedded. the bipod was a harris. the gas system was shimmed but not unitized. gas piston stock USGI. oprod guide stock USGI. Basically besides the barrel a fairly stock rifle. The optic was a Schmidt and Bender 4-16x50 PMII with a Gen2 reticle. mounted to Badger Ordnance rings. The ammo used to test was LC M118 LR 175 grain SMK 7.62mm match ammo..your basic military match sniper ammo. The temp at the range was 98*F and the wind was fluctuating 10-15 mph. the density altitude was 3500ft.

The ammo average chronoed at 2650 fps on a chrony f1. The comeup for 1000 yard was 10.6 mils. The velocity seemed a bit high but the 10.6 mil to 1k verifies this is the correct velocity.

The hits on target at that distance was consistent and multiple groups hovered at 1 MOA. The rifle was allowed to cool to test for cold bore repeatability of the mount and as the picture shows the mount is absolutely solid with no shift in POI with the cold bore shot. The rifle was also tested at 750 yards and rapid fire strings were done to check for wandering zero or POI stringing and none was present. Throughout the day groups were tested between the two distance and the results were absolutely consistent with 200 rounds of the same lot of ammo tested.

Without a doubt this is the most secure, reliable and consistent non permanent bolt on m14 scope mount on the market today. There is not a single sidemount scopemount made today that can duplicate these results unless it is permanently tig welded to the receiver as the USMC PWS does on the DMR rifles. Note this test was done on a combat grade rifle with a surplus fiberglass USGI stock not a competition match rifle with a bedded stock and unitzed gas system. I am confident I or any proficient long range shooter can duplicate these results with this mount on a suitable plaform without question."

 

[Katana]

It's hard to see but irons are completely usable on mine other than the 50mm bell on the scope makes it impossible as it covers the front sight post. If you went with a 44mm bell it's shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Katana]

I appreciate your reply. But I would appreciate it more if you described the "change of the spring" you are referring too. What you mean to say here is you take the bolt apart, change the spring (or alter it) and go back to the range to see if you have fixed the problem with cartridge case jams. You can do that with a 3006 case as described here or you can buy a bolt tool you don't really need.



The CASM will work with every M14/M1A receiver made.



If you saying that there is a new BPT-based scope mount that requires no shimming "on every M14/M1A receiver" I haven't seen it.



If you could describe this procedure/fix in detail, it may help others who own said scope mounts.



With due respect sir, you are wrong.



Do you believe everyone is willing to work through the problems you have experienced with BPT-based scope mount designs? Most rifleman I have spoken too would prefer that a scope mount works and sets up fast.



Tack welding the side bolt is described clearly in Lee Emerson's Scope Mount FAQ. We all want a reliable mount and it is not only the Marine Corps that demand it.



The CASM GEN II has a BUS.



The history of M14 scope mounts are well-known and I have not said anything that cannot be independently verified. I will submit this recent review for your reflection. I have not said anything about the Second Coming, my customers however will have the last word here. Thank-you for your comments and cheers for the evening...

"Frank the pictures I sent were taken from well known The Best Of the West shooting center in Liberty HIll TX taken June 2nd. The performance of the platform is verified by many witnesses including the Range Officer of the day. The rifle platform which the CASM mount was tested on was a standard Springfield armory M1A with a 18 inch medium weight stainless match barrel in 1/10 twist, make of barrel unknown. the trigger was a tuned NM GI trigger. the stock was a USGI fiberglass stock. the stock was not bedded. the bipod was a harris. the gas system was shimmed but not unitized. gas piston stock USGI. oprod guide stock USGI. Basically besides the barrel a fairly stock rifle. The optic was a Schmidt and Bender 4-16x50 PMII with a Gen2 reticle. mounted to Badger Ordnance rings. The ammo used to test was LC M118 LR 175 grain SMK 7.62mm match ammo..your basic military match sniper ammo. The temp at the range was 98*F and the wind was fluctuating 10-15 mph. the density altitude was 3500ft.

The ammo average chronoed at 2650 fps on a chrony f1. The comeup for 1000 yard was 10.6 mils. The velocity seemed a bit high but the 10.6 mil to 1k verifies this is the correct velocity.

The hits on target at that distance was consistent and multiple groups hovered at 1 MOA. The rifle was allowed to cool to test for cold bore repeatability of the mount and as the picture shows the mount is absolutely solid with no shift in POI with the cold bore shot. The rifle was also tested at 750 yards and rapid fire strings were done to check for wandering zero or POI stringing and none was present. Throughout the day groups were tested between the two distance and the results were absolutely consistent with 200 rounds of the same lot of ammo tested.

Without a doubt this is the most secure, reliable and consistent non permanent bolt on m14 scope mount on the market today. There is not a single sidemount scopemount made today that can duplicate these results unless it is permanently tig welded to the receiver as the USMC PWS does on the DMR rifles. Note this test was done on a combat grade rifle with a surplus fiberglass USGI stock not a competition match rifle with a bedded stock and unitzed gas system. I am confident I or any proficient long range shooter can duplicate these results with this mount on a suitable plaform without question."

First things first, I mean no personal attach on you or your company. As a matter of fact, I wise you all the success in the world as we all in the M1A world will benefit for it. I'm just offering some constructive criticism.

I never said that you said it was the second coming of christ, I said that that comments made it sound like it to me and the in bold is exactly what I'm talking about. It's obvious that your having great success with this mount but with every report/review of some big wig and some long winded report of all the technical crap is just over the top for me.

1) The fix for the jam is an easy fix. Take out the spring, cut two coils off and put it back together and done. It's not rocket science. If that's to scary you can buy the spring and put it in. Yes, the M1A can be a bit frustrating to work with but it's not that hard once you've done it a couple of time. You do not need a tool/30-06 case to to the job. A zip lock freezer bag is all you need to catch the parts should they go astray and yes the will until you get the hang of it. God forbid that shooters take apart there bolts and clean the free floating firing pin every once and a while.

2) Being that most people in Canada have Nork's, it's a mute point.

3) Nope I won't say that as I know you are correct as I said in my post.

4) You really want me to video of me taking a file to the inside of the dove tail to show how to open it up a bit???

5) Again the only mount that caused jams was the second ver of the ARMS 18 and #1 fixes that. You say I'm wrong, show me...

6) Like I said, I'd love to see someone on CGN abuse there M1A enough that a Smith/ARMS would need the side bolt welded in order to hold zero. That may be what the Marine Corps need but no one on this site will ever need that. So again, a mute point.

7) Yup, the CASM GEN II has a BUS, that's not adjustable. It may be possible to get what you need out of the front site but with the quality control out of China like it is, some Norks my have barrel so out of index to make it work and yes I've seen that LOTS. As a matte of fact, I've never seen a M1A out of China that didn't need the barrel indexed.

I'm not your enemy Frank just giving my honest opinion of your mount and the mounts that I have experiential with. Yes, sometime is take a bit of work to get a Smith/ARMS to get mounted up right, sometimes not but I have always been able to get it done. I may end up trying one of your mount who know but for now I just stick with what's worked for me.

 

[tadosan]

Thanks on your input Tactical 111. I very much appreciate it. However, I did find out about this from other M14 owners & as you mentioned, it was already too late to make the changes.
In anycase, I will keep that in mind in case I have a change of heart.

You just swap the bolt springs with USGI. This changes the ejection pattern from front to side. Very easy to do. Then you could have kept it.

 

[M14.CA]

First things first, I mean no personal attach on you or your company. As a matter of fact, I wise you all the success in the world as we all in the M1A world will benefit for it. I'm just offering some constructive criticism.

No worries Katana, nothing personal here. I try to focus on facts when I write about scope mounts and that is all I want to convey here. Nothing more. Your post and photos helped point out another issue with the BPT-inspired scope mounts and the larger bells so thank-you for that.

1) The fix for the jam is an easy fix. Take out the spring, cut two coils off and put it back together and done. It's not rocket science. If that's to scary you can buy the spring and put it in. Yes, the M1A can be a bit frustrating to work with but it's not that hard once you've done it a couple of time. You do not need a tool/30-06 case to to the job. A zip lock freezer bag is all you need to catch the parts should they go astray and yes the will until you get the hang of it. God forbid that shooters take apart there bolts and clean the free floating firing pin every once and a while.

I agree. The point I made earlier was that you don't have to do it with a CASM scope mount. It sets up in 10 minutes right out of the box.

2) Being that most people in Canada have Nork's, it's a mute point.

No sir. The CASM is shipped worldwide.

4) You really want me to video of me taking a file to the inside of the dove tail to show how to open it up a bit???

No, but thank-you again for pointing one more thing, that is, that the stripper clip guide dovetail slot was never designed as a scope mount base. As Sadlak points out in their improved BPT-inspired scope mount: "Brookfield design demands too much from such a small #10 socket head cap screw. It must: 1) Hold the Clip Guide Key in the receiver groove from moving AND 2) Securely hold the mount against the receiver’s angled face. One screw cannot do both reliably which is one reason for some of improvements."

5) Again the only mount that caused jams was the second ver of the ARMS 18 and #1 fixes that. You say I'm wrong, show me...

I am relaying customer experience here. I have no problem with the BPT-inspired scope mount you mention specifically, it is a good scope mount on the right rifle but unlike the CASM it will not fit universally on any M1A or M14 made without modifications and additional testing. If you have problems setting it up, some customers, not all, may have to spend more money to do it and you would agree that more time will also be spent simply proving out your installation. It sounds like you have worked through these very problems more than once and now are very familiar with how to fix them. That is a good thing but my point is that you would not have these experiences with a CASM mount.

6) Like I said, I'd love to see someone on CGN abuse there M1A enough that a Smith/ARMS would need the side bolt welded in order to hold zero. That may be what the Marine Corps need but no one on this site will ever need that. So again, a mute point.

At the very least, I would want to use a torque wrench to set up a Brookfield-type scope mount side mount bolt to the recommended torque as per the instructions offered. Not every customer has a torque wrench. These instructions are directly from Sadlaks web site. My opinion is, these guys make the best Brookfield-type mount available.

1) Hex Screw(3): 65-70 inch-lbs.

2) Two set screws in the Clip Guide Key(4): 30-40 inch-lbs
Warning: Use caution when tightening setscrews.
DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN. Receiver may crack if
excessive force is used.

3) Clip Guide Screw(5): 30-40 inch lbs

7) Yup, the CASM GEN II has a BUS, that's not adjustable.

The CASM GEN II and the new CASM EX are getting a compatible front site base and muzzle brake this year.
I appreciate your opinion Katana, but dont read into my comments too much, I am just trying to focus on the scope mount discussion.
Cheers for now
Frank

 

[Teapot]

T
All part of a poor-mans Black Hawk Down project I've been dreaming of. Next on the shopping list, Aimpoint.

It didn't go too well for those two brave guys.

 

[Crack Feather]

First things first, I mean no personal attach on you or your company. As a matter of fact, I wise you all the success in the world as we all in the M1A world will benefit for it. I'm just offering some constructive criticism.

I never said that you said it was the second coming of christ, I said that that comments made it sound like it to me and the in bold is exactly what I'm talking about. It's obvious that your having great success with this mount but with every report/review of some big wig and some long winded report of all the technical crap is just over the top for me.

1) The fix for the jam is an easy fix. Take out the spring, cut two coils off and put it back together and done. It's not rocket science. If that's to scary you can buy the spring and put it in. Yes, the M1A can be a bit frustrating to work with but it's not that hard once you've done it a couple of time. You do not need a tool/30-06 case to to the job. A zip lock freezer bag is all you need to catch the parts should they go astray and yes the will until you get the hang of it. God forbid that shooters take apart there bolts and clean the free floating firing pin every once and a while.

2) Being that most people in Canada have Nork's, it's a mute point.

3) Nope I won't say that as I know you are correct as I said in my post.

4) You really want me to video of me taking a file to the inside of the dove tail to show how to open it up a bit???

5) Again the only mount that caused jams was the second ver of the ARMS 18 and #1 fixes that. You say I'm wrong, show me...

6) Like I said, I'd love to see someone on CGN abuse there M1A enough that a Smith/ARMS would need the side bolt welded in order to hold zero. That may be what the Marine Corps need but no one on this site will ever need that. So again, a mute point.

7) Yup, the CASM GEN II has a BUS, that's not adjustable. It may be possible to get what you need out of the front site but with the quality control out of China like it is, some Norks my have barrel so out of index to make it work and yes I've seen that LOTS. As a matte of fact, I've never seen a M1A out of China that didn't need the barrel indexed.

I'm not your enemy Frank just giving my honest opinion of your mount and the mounts that I have experiential with. Yes, sometime is take a bit of work to get a Smith/ARMS to get mounted up right, sometimes not but I have always been able to get it done. I may end up trying one of your mount who know but for now I just stick with what's worked for me.

Your wasting your breath...
All you had to reply is...
Y are you producing a steel mount now instead of a alluminum before and why do you think there are so many post's about stuff not being exactly the same between Uncle Mao design and the USGI orignal spec.

 

[M14.CA]

All you had to reply is...Y are you producing a steel mount now instead of a alluminum.

We have always used steel and alumunim for the CASM series scope mounts. I recommend steel for steel rings and extra large 50mm+ bell, heavy scopes otherwise, 40mm belled scopes and under, generally speaking, and red dots etc., are suited perfectly to the aluminum CASM GEN II. No need to spend the extra money if you don't need too. Steel is a nice material to own in a scope mount, but I prefer the aluminum on my own rifle because it keeps the weight down (140 grams approx. in a CASM GEN II aluminum mount). Another advantage to running a CASM seated further back in the rear sight pocket is that it improves rifle balance slightly by shifting the tipping point rearward.

 

[Workin Man]

Thanks for the pictures Katana, I think that might work for me. If I do decide to mount a scope, it will probably be a 3-9x40mm or a 4-12x40mm or something like that. I will also use quick release type rings similar to what you have, so seeing under the objective bell won't be an issue. I have a few rifles set up similar to that now, so I can switch from irons to a scope when I want to.

EDIT: Does that scope have a 30mm main tube?

 

[Katana]

Yes it's a 30mm tube

 

[mattf87]

I will be ordering one soon, I took it out shooting today just with the irons and got them sighted in pretty good. I was shooting clay pigeons set up in the snow with the iron sights at about 50 yards consistently so I was happy with that. Cant wait to get it scoped up

 

[375rum]

Hey M14.ca Just ordered a scope mount CASM Alum gen 2.Got the email about
8 days for anodizing,no problem.I tried to call and the phone number you sent
does not work.Will it ship within a couple of weeks?Thanks

 

[M14.CA]

Hey M14.ca Just ordered a scope mount CASM Alum gen 2.Got the email about
8 days for anodizing,no problem.I tried to call and the phone number you sent
does not work.Will it ship within a couple of weeks?Thanks

Tel. no. should be working, hasn't changed in 23 years. Thanks for your support. I will have all CASMs inspected and in shipping the day they arrive back from anodizing.

 

[375rum]

Sounds great,funny on the phone,thanks for the service and coms.

 

[Gun Lover]

I have the Basset mount on my M305, and so far I am very pleased. Price is mid-range.

Hey grey, where did you get your Bassett mount from, if I may ask?