M14 sight issue

bigbush

bigbush

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I finally got to the range with my canam m14 today. the rifle functions and groups excellently. the problem is that the groups are really low. zero at 100m is exactly 1 click up from the bottom. i did not pull the rear sight apart when i cleaned up the cosmoline.

is this normal or anything to worry about?
 
Your front sight blade height is the problem.
A common issue according to the emails I've been getting.
Seems china just slapped on the standard 22" barrel front sight.
A shorter barrel requires a taller front sight.
 
hmm, yeah that makes sense. i've got a spare from norc sight i might see about welding to a spare tru-glo ruger 10/22 sight with. both are sitting in my parts bin and i got nothing better to do.

or anyone know of any manufacturer who makes a taller one?
 
On my Shorty the front sight is slightly higher than the ears and sloped towards the muzzle so they got it right with this one :), I am 1 click from bottom at 100 meter zero , up 2 clicks for 200,add 3 more clicks for 300, add 4 more clicks for 400 and add 5 more clicks for 500.
As long as your sights are moving side to side and up and down with positive repeatable clicks dont worry about it.
I upgraded to a set of Garand rear sights .

If you want a cheap fix to gain front sight height , glue a plastic tie wrap on top of your original and then trim it to fit. It will give you the thickness of the plastic strap on top of your original sight.

My front sight
Shortypic1a.jpg
 
I guess I am the only 1 that remebers how to simpley resolve this issue with a "bastard" file?
From now on please reffer to me as "BUBA" :p
standard.jpg
 
As per above, you may also have to grind some material off the front end of the rear sight. Bits Of Pieces gas lock and tallest norinco front sight that I could find. Trial and error but it works.
 
Am I missing something here? If you install a higher front sight on a rifle, won't the group be shifted down?
 
M14Doctor said:
Your front sight blade height is the problem.
A common issue according to the emails I've been getting.
Seems china just slapped on the standard 22" barrel front sight.
A shorter barrel requires a taller front sight.
Click to expand...


Correct.

Taller NM front sights come with the 18.0" Bush and Scout M1A.
I think Springfield Armory, Inc. will sell you just the front sight.
 
I noticed the same difference with SEI sights a while back, which I also thought to be counter-intuative, so I asked but have not been given an answer. I would have initially thought that the slightly lower velocity would require one to lob the bullet more; however, if this is neglegible then perhaps the line of sight tapers towards the muzzle so as the front sight moves back it need to be taller to maintain that same straight line?
R

tiriaq said:
Am I missing something here? If you install a higher front sight on a rifle, won't the group be shifted down?
Click to expand...
 
robin2y said:
I noticed the same difference with SEI sights a while back, which I also thought to be counter-intuative, so I asked but have not been given an answer. I would have initially thought that the slightly lower velocity would require one to lob the bullet more; however, if this is neglegible then perhaps the line of sight tapers towards the muzzle so as the front sight moves back it need to be taller to maintain that same straight line?R
Click to expand...

There you have it right now ..
 
Yup, Robin2y , that's how it works.
Ideally, even with the 18.5" barrel , your 100 yard zero should be 8 clicks up from bottom on the rear sight.
It can be tricky achieving this with the inconsistancies of standard chinese front sights.

I have a client's rifle, a krieger barreled 18.5"
With rear sight bottomed out, it shoots approx 1" inch high at 100. The rear sight is perfectly functional, we're keeping it on the rifle. The front sight and flash hider are being replaced with a SEI DC Vortex and SEI gas lock front sight set, purpose made by SEI for 18" barrels, the client is supplying these parts.

Here is an opportunity for folks like NEA and Dlask to manufacture some metric , castlenut retained muzzle devices with no front sight and a gas lock type front sight, metric and set to the appropriate height for 18.5" barrels.
 
TacticalDan said:
I was wondering if we could just tig weld a little blob on top of the sight then file to size?
Click to expand...

With a micro torch and a good tig welder, yes. Choose a filler rod that is chromoly steel compatable.

There's a whack of shorties out there, chop modded to 18.75" that have the UFS gas cylinder mod. The UFS is a tig welded front sight base that is set at a height that allows use of the standard front sight blade in about 95% of rifles modded. The base is permanently attached to the gas system itself. Some, due to the chinese front sight variances, have needed a taller blade to zero correctly. The UFS is the perfect solution for chopped barrels with 1/2x28 muzzle threads.
 
So raising the front sight will raise the groups? To my mind, raising the front sight pushes the barrel down and lowers the groups further.

I have a customer telling me that his rear peep sight is at the lowest setting and the gun is shooting low, so he needs a taller front sight. I cannot figure the math on this.

I do understand the need for a taller front sight on the shorter barrel, it is the above I am struggling with.

Just trying to understand this better.
 
You are correct ....Sounds like he isnt zeroing completely..So if he is hitting low at 100 with the rear sight at the lowest setting ...move the rear sight elevation knob up a few clicks and this will move his group higher.
Once he is where he wants to be at 100 ,you now loosen the elevation knob and hold the sights where they are and set the elev knob to 100 ...Done

The amount of clicks from bottom is counted and that will be his mechanical or base zero .He should remember or write this down.
My sights ended up at 1 click from bottom for 100 m zero ,add 2 clicks for 200,add 3 clicks for 300 etc .As Satain has said if he wants more clicks from bottom for 100 zero file the rear sight as shown .

And thanks again Canam for brining these in .
 
CanAm said:
So raising the front sight will raise the groups? To my mind, raising the front sight pushes the barrel down and lowers the groups further.

I have a customer telling me that his rear peep sight is at the lowest setting and the gun is shooting low, so he needs a taller front sight. I cannot figure the math on this.

I do understand the need for a taller front sight on the shorter barrel, it is the above I am struggling with.

Just trying to understand this better.
Click to expand...

to my way of thinking all he needs to do is move his rear sights up till he achieves 100m zero. for my rifle i got from you it took 1 click to achieve 100m zero. if his POI is low and his rear sight is at the lowest setting, he just has to adjust the rear sight up. now if his POI was high at 100m and his rear sight was at the lowest setting, he would have to raise the front sight up. or am i out to lunch?
 
Yup, Canam done us a huge service in supplying these and I wouldn't hold him accountable for the issue.

I'm going to try and write up a very detailed description of how this works, and how to and where to adjust to acheive a 8 click elevation zero at 100, with a 18.5 inch barrel.
 
CanAm said:
So raising the front sight will raise the groups? To my mind, raising the front sight pushes the barrel down and lowers the groups further.

I have a customer telling me that his rear peep sight is at the lowest setting and the gun is shooting low, so he needs a taller front sight. I cannot figure the math on this.

I do understand the need for a taller front sight on the shorter barrel, it is the above I am struggling with.

Just trying to understand this better.
Click to expand...
No...
His front sight is too high. the front sight needs to be lower cause that it why when he is shooting it, it is more like an artiliry round instead of a rilfe shoot. Tell him to remove the front post sight to the weld lines. Then flaten out the rear post sight like I have shown in the picture and then try to sight in the rifle. Uncle Mao really screwed up on making the front post sight on this rilfe but thankfully we have files that can correc these issues.
 
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