M14 - slam fires

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MiniMe

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I recently bought a shorty from Epps and it is stamped .308
So I bought a few boxes of Winchester .308 ammo and I took it to the range....the rifle some times fires 2 rounds with one trigger pull.
I sent it back to North Sylva and they said that I'm supposed to use military ammo because commercial ammo's primers are too soft for it (floating firing pin). According to the sales guy at Epps, even though it fires two rounds, it is safe because it wont fire until the bolt is fully closed.

Does anyone know anything about it?
Is it really safe to shoot commercial ammo?
Is there any way I can fix this problem? maybe a replacement firing pin like the spring loaded ones from Murray for the SKS?
I even bought CCI regular large rifle primers to start reloading, now I''m not sure if this one is hard enough or not. CCI#34 is way more expensive and that if you can find it.

Thanks
 
MiniMe said:
I recently bought a shorty from Epps and it is stamped .308
So I bought a few boxes of Winchester .308 ammo and I took it to the range....the rifle some times fires 2 rounds with one trigger pull.
I sent it back to North Sylva and they said that I'm supposed to use military ammo because commercial ammo's primers are too soft for it (floating firing pin). According to the sales guy at Epps, even though it fires two rounds, it is safe because it wont fire until the bolt is fully closed.

Does anyone know anything about it?
Is it really safe to shoot commercial ammo?
Is there any way I can fix this problem? maybe a replacement firing pin like the spring loaded ones from Murray for the SKS?
I even bought CCI regular large rifle primers to start reloading, now I''m not sure if this one is hard enough or not. CCI#34 is way more expensive and that if you can find it.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Doesnt sound right to me
Try doing the trigger after assembly test ... to prevent slam fires

1. #### the action and confirm safety works.
2. take it off safe and fire the action.
3. while keeping trigger to the rear #### the action and see if the hammer follows the bolt forward ( it shouldnt)
4. release the trigger and you should hear a click , then squeeze the trigger and fire the action .

If it doesnt pass this test it could give you the results you are having ....my USGI fiberglass stock did this after painting and it was fixed by removing a little material under the trigger pads and trigger guard.

You can also check the bolt to see if the firing pin is free floating ...take it out and shake it to see if it is moving back and forth as it should, also make sure the firing pin hole isnt full of crap
 
first, don't believe ANYTHING a SALES GUY tells you- he didn't tell you that you should NEVER DROP A ROUND in the chamber , and it'll go off, ( just make it a golden rule to feed directly from the mag)that's a slamfire, btw- you're getting a problem known as doubling- slamfires are MUCH more disasterous- usually shredding the receiver and parting the magazine-
and beleive them, it could VERY WELL be the ammo
but switching to a different primer might NOT solve the problem- the easiest way to solve this might be with a little experimentation on your part- ie change your ammo; simple enough to buy something else- try changing your bullet weights as well
some rifles are finicky as to what ammo you use- but the FIRST thing i would suspect is that there's some kind of crud in the FIRING PIN CHANNEL( they bathe these things in grease)and take it to a QUALIFIED smith to inspect- SOMEONE THAT KNOWS THE GARAND
there's lots of guys on here using 308 winchester ( winchester brand) white box 150 grain ammo with no problem at all- mof, it's the MOST COMMON fACTORY LOAD
as far a firing pin spring goes, i don't know if they exist- never seen one, never needed one- and i've had a 14 in my hands since 88
 
make sure rifle is unloaded and do some tests.
remove mag and check for empty chamber.
close bolt thus cocking rifle.point in safe direction,pull trigger--gun should "click"--keep finger pressure on trigger and recock/recycle rifle.
remove finger from trigger thus resetting trigger and try to pull trigger again.it should go "click"
if it doesn't go click then your hammer is not resetting for some reason,

step 2:
did you completely strip and clean the rifle?
strip gun and see if bolt firing pin is sticking forward.
don't try to strip the bolt yourself--it's a real biotch.
spray brake cleaner in and all over your bolt.

step 3:
if the trigger resets properly and the firing pin is nice and loose then it may be that your ammo is too weak
to completely recycle the action,thus the hammer is not reseting and it's following the bolt forward.

check it out and get back to us.
 
Once you've made sure that your bolt is clean and the function tests all pass, think about your trigger pull follow-through. If you're not following through and squeezing all the way to the rear it's possible that your finger is hanging right at the seer break point and the jolt of recoil is causing you to inadvertently double-tap. Just a thought.
 
oh, you can speculate as to the cause till the cows come home- one of my favorites is the one were the "shade tree" gunsmith took a file to the HAMMER HOOKS and now they don't engage properly- i had a usgi14 that would "double" go it for 340 off a guy that didn't know what was happening- cash- there was CRUD in front of the trigger o it wouldn't return to the home position- spray out the crud and it works fine- that's why it would double
now, i've never used anything but glenn ZEDIKER's formula for match loads( 168 grain bullet, 43-44 grains ww748,cci large rifle MAGNUM primer, 2550 fps( nato slr( special long range) m118 - the only sub i've made over the years is winchester primers- never had a problem
i use magnm primers b/c its BALL powder, but there MIGHT be an added benefit of a thicker primer cup- as to the cci34 primer, it's a GIMMICK
 
The rifle passed all these tests and I always loaded it from the mag.
It is very clean, removed all cosmoline, the firing pin looks pretty loose to me, but I have to admit I did not disassemble the bolt...seemed too complicated and I'm a M14 übbernoob.
One thing a friend and I noticed.
The ammo I tried seems to have pretty soft primers, as they are very flat, just like in hot handloads. I clocked it and they were around 2750FPS (Winchester super X 150gr)
Also, it only doubled twice out of 60 rounds.

Try another ammo, maybe?
Would a handload with regular CCI large rifle primers be ok or are they just as soft?

TKs
 
MiniMe said:
I recently bought a shorty from Epps and it is stamped .308
So I bought a few boxes of Winchester .308 ammo and I took it to the range....the rifle some times fires 2 rounds with one trigger pull.
I sent it back to North Sylva and they said that I'm supposed to use military ammo because commercial ammo's primers are too soft for it (floating firing pin). According to the sales guy at Epps, even though it fires two rounds, it is safe because it wont fire until the bolt is fully closed.

Does anyone know anything about it?
Is it really safe to shoot commercial ammo?
Is there any way I can fix this problem? maybe a replacement firing pin like the spring loaded ones from Murray for the SKS?
I even bought CCI regular large rifle primers to start reloading, now I''m not sure if this one is hard enough or not. CCI#34 is way more expensive and that if you can find it.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I hope you learned your lesson.
Next time buy from Marstar (you might have to wait until in stock), but they really have a no BS guaranty and will take it back without any questions asked.
Kudos to John and his team.
 
polaris said:
I hope you learned your lesson.
Next time buy from Marstar (you might have to wait until in stock), but they really have a no BS guaranty and will take it back without any questions asked.
Kudos to John and his team.
Click to expand...

LOL
I've learned that when I tried to exchange/refund my rifle at EPPS 2 months ago.
They've lost a customer.
I don't have anything against the salesmen or Jason, the gunsmith. It's just their no returns/exchanges policy that sux.
When i was picking up my rifle last friday I saw another rifle that I liked and didn't buy it just because of that.
 
Primers are normally the issue in this platform. Use suitable primers for free floating firing pins. High sitting and soft primers will go off as the bolt is closing on the edge of locking. A dangerous situation can occur. Try chambering a round and extract it. I bet there's a ding on the primer. My only purchase from Epps was my last one. They sent me a brand new rusty shotgun.
 
T-star I used alot of CCI250's over the years with Olin748 and their cups seem to be the toughest I've tried. I can't see where someone would need a thicker cup than these compared to factory ammo primers anyway. My M-14 pierced two S&B primers on their factory Ball ammo over a three year period, seems to strike really hard and deep, and their primer cups must be alot like Remington .308 cups for softness.
 
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