M14 vertical stringing?

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fat but funky

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Hi Guys,

Like the title says, norinco M14 vertical stringing. Seems present with any kind of ammo i have used. Sometimes is very distinct (can connect holes with a ruler) sometimes less distinct.

Any thoughts on what to do to fix this?

Thanks

Fat
 
Bedding the stock would be a very good idea. If using a scope make sure that it is on a quality mount, and everything is tight. Consider removing the scope and seeing if the problem continues with iron sights. If not, try a different scope and/or mount.

If using irons the norinco rear sight sometimes doesn't hold and moves under recoil which can be corrected by replacing it with a Garand rear sight.

Let us know a bit about your setup so we can offer better advice. :)
 
My setup is pretty basic

5-15 AO scope
Leupold QD rings
ARMS 18 mount

all above as tight as I can make them. Nothing seems to loosen up when shooting.

Added one of the eagle cheek pieces if that means anything.

So far tried norinco 7.62, south african 7.62, Winchester white box, soft point, and supreme, federal gold medal. Usually the "stringing" is progressively downwards.

Shooting off an improvised rest at 100 yards.

Fat
 
I used to be on a military shooting team and the first thing we asked a fellow shooting a vertical string of shots was to ensure they where consistently shooting with the same amount of air in they're lungs.
 
My bet is bedding.
I had exactly the same thing on my 'rinco. 3 shot groups that would measure 1"-1.5" horizontally; but 6" vertically.

You don't have sufficent stability at the back of your action, insufficent/inconsistant clamping.
 
Two questions... Are you shooting the rifle from front and rear sandbags... And are others that shoot your rifle also get vertical stringing in the groups...

It could be your breathing... Just for example... IF I drink to much coffee prior to a range trip... My groups go to hell... There are many many factors that affect your groups... Most of them are operator problems. Try concentrating on just what you are doing at each and every shot, be consistant...

Remember, the snipers rule... Brass...
Breath
Relax
Aim
Slack
Squeeze...

Cheers
Jay
 
None of the above

fat but funky said:
My setup is pretty basic

5-15 AO scope
Leupold QD rings
ARMS 18 mount

all above as tight as I can make them. Nothing seems to loosen up when shooting.

Added one of the Eagle cheek pieces if that means anything.

Fat
Click to expand...

Over course of a few really disappointing DCRA matches I realized my strings were caused by improper head positioning. When I was able to put my head consistently in the same place every time, the strings settled down. I built up and rasped down a couple of cheekrests before settling on good ones. That was with iron sights. It all came back when I tried shooting scopes.

So, put some sort of marker or tape on your glasses. This will force you to align your cheek, eye and line of sight. Put a solid cheek rest on the rifle, one what will not flex or deform. Finally, consider your body position. Are there any variables that are making you do 'the turkey neck'?
 
First is look at the rifle bedding. Gas system tight, bedding FRONT and rear tight. No issues with optics rattling around. No issues with scope holding zero.

Secondly, rests, support the front and rear of the rifle. You want the rifle to be solid on a rigid table. No bouncing or wiggling around.

Third, how are you shooting? If you can shoot other rifles with consistent and round groups, then move to number 4. Otherwise, get better at shooting or let someone else fire a few groups.

Fourth, ammo. If everything else is ok, then the problem is ammo. Almost every M305 I have worked on and shot, didn't like 308 bolt action ammo. Pressure curve/gas port volume was simply too high.

By going to moderate, low gas port pressure/volume handloads, groups have shrunk to MOA or better.

Jerry
 
Thanks guys.

For now this is my only centerfire rifle, but I have never noticed any stringing in the rimfires. Still, I will try to work out a more 'front-and-back' sort of arrangement with the rest.

Will also look into bedding.

This might be a stupid question but is it hard to bed the action? I have understood that the process is largely fill stock with 'goop', smear release agent on whatever parts of action meet with wood, and re-assemble.

How likely am I to pooch up the rifle entirely if I do things wrong?

Thanks

Fat
 
fat but funky said:
Thanks guys.

For now this is my only centerfire rifle, but I have never noticed any stringing in the rimfires. Still, I will try to work out a more 'front-and-back' sort of arrangement with the rest.

Will also look into bedding.

This might be a stupid question but is it hard to bed the action? I have understood that the process is largely fill stock with 'goop', smear release agent on whatever parts of action meet with wood, and re-assemble.

How likely am I to pooch up the rifle entirely if I do things wrong?

Thanks

Fat
Click to expand...
There are a number of particular surfaces to bed, but not the whole action. US military rifle teams fired millions of rounds through carefully prepared rifles and learned just exactly where to apply the neccesary support. If it was possible; those guys already tried it.

The two easy to fix areas are the flat between the wood and the trigger group on either side of the magazine housing. You can pinch a strip of sheet metal there to pull the parts together as the trigger guard is closed. The same material squeezed between the wood and the rounded rear of the reciever closest to your nose, will reduce some of the whipping as the parts dance and flex under recoil. I have used tin shears and some salvaged white aluminum siding. The key is single layers then double if necessary.

The most exhaustive information has been published by the USAMTU (US Army Marksmanship Training Unit). The images have hairy forearms holding parts in grainy Xerox pictures of actions with white epoxy stripes here and there. The information and better drawings are republished in the shop manuals by Jerry Kuhnhausen. His are considered the only source of consistently reliable information. Expect to pay $50 for copies.
 
I've done it, it was easy as pie. Complicated, exacting pie; but the eating was good.

As I was bedding the Chu Wood stock, I also made 'pillars' to prevent the re-comression of the wood. Another user on this board used steel pins to do the same thing.
 
This is the perfect rifle to learn about bedding on. Do it the first time with the factory wood stock, and the worst you can do is give yourself an excuse to buy the stronger usgi fiberglass stock. :)

Remember lots of release agent, and tape over all the areas you don't want bedding to stick to while handling the stock with messy hands. I used pam cooking spray as a release agent becuase it gets into all the crevices quite well.

Use something that sets slowly for the actual bedding so you don't have to rush the first time as you apply it.
 
I should add that I did the bedding on mine to correct a bunch of pressure points caused by a previous owner of the stock. I only did the action area and there was side to side movement still at the front of the stock which I planned to do later.

I shot my last 5 rounds out of a box of 150 grain rem corelokt ammo, and got a group that was less than 1" vertically at 100 yards, but 3 or 4" horizontally. The horizontal spread was likely caused by the side to side movement around the gas system which I'll get around to fixing soon.

I think this shows how important the bedding of the action is to reduce vertical stringing. :cool:
 
vertical stringing can usually be traced back to the bedding of the stock. In the case of the M14 it can also be related to the gas piston housing/stock ferrule
 
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