m14s accuracy, is this the best I can get from it?

BC_Guy

BC_Guy

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I've got an m14s (approx 500 rounds), rooster spring guide, usgi spring, usgi stock, rooster cheekpiece, arms18, bushnell 10x40, and now a unitized gas system.

Still, this gun (shooting portugese surplus) is at best a 1.5" at 100m rifle. I'm pretty sure it's not me, I am capable of shooting far better than that with other rifles.

Is this the best this gun will do with this ammo, or did I get a lemon? I've heard plenty of stories of guys shooting sub moa with these guns (albeit with different ammo).
 
BC_Guy... I hear ya!!! I think your problem is not with the rifle, but with the ammo your using to do your testing... Portugese NATO ammo is great, I really like it. But, it is not like handloads (I LOVE handloads) or even match ammo...

1.5 inches at 100m is completely acceptable for a battle rifle with Nato surplus ammo... Many out of the box bolt rifles are right around 1 or 1.5 inches at that distance. Anyhow, back on topic...

Try some match ammo... It's more suited to what your trying to establish, i.e. the accuracy capabilities of your M14. Also, your trigger may well be a major hinderance... If you've gone so far as to unitize your gas system etc, then maybe a match trigger is not much more of a leap...

Other guys will have some other idea's, let us know how it works out.

Cheers
Jay
 
There are a few more tweaks that can be done to the rifle but 1.500"-5 shot groups @ 100 yards is definately not a lemon . Bed the action , bend the front ferrule clips up so the forestock isn't touching the stock , maybe a trigger job . Maybe index the barrel . All that's cheap and may get you to 1 inch @ 100 . Much more than that and your expectations may be too high . I've had two that would shot .750" groups definately and .500" groups , sometimes and i spent about $2,500.00 on each of them . These are main battle rifles designed to shoot somewhere around 3 inches at 100 and anything you do to get them shooting better than that is fine , but i'd recommend that you don't spend too much chasing tiny holes like i did . I've also heard plenty of stories of guys shooting sub moa with these guns , key word being stories . Lots of good shooters out there and quite a few guys who have rebuilt thier rifles but i doubt there is more than a handfull of the right guys with the right guns who can show up at the range anytime and shoot sub moa . Devcon is fairly cheap and bedding may get you another quarter , maybe half an inch .
 
What exackly do you want? M-14's when issued to meet mil spec for issue were supposed to keep 10 rnds within 4.5" at 100m. Heavy barreled, national match guns do about 1 min. That is pretty good shooting for surplus ball ammo!!!

Scott
Dycor Special
Services
 
m39a2 said:
What exackly do you want? M-14's when issued to meet mil spec for issue were supposed to keep 10 rnds within 4.5" at 100m. Heavy barreled, national match guns do about 1 min. That is pretty good shooting for surplus ball ammo!!!

Scott
Dycor Special
Services
Click to expand...

Have to agree there, give some decent ammo a try and remember it's a semi-auto and was designed to be an infantry rifle (go bang every time- good, hit something - better)
 
m39a2 said:
What exackly do you want? M-14's when issued to meet mil spec for issue were supposed to keep 10 rnds within 4.5" at 100m. Heavy barreled, national match guns do about 1 min. That is pretty good shooting for surplus ball ammo!!!

Scott
Dycor Special
Services
Click to expand...


I'll say....

If you're getting 1.5 moa oob you are laughing, especially considering the costs associated with building out a sub-moa rifle.

Best group shot by guns & ammo staff for the Socom M1A was 2.5 inches with Hornady TAP... completely acceptable for a rifle designed for 4.5 inch groups.
 
Thanks for the replies.

One thing, I wouldn't say I'm 'getting 1.5 moa' from this gun. Out of about thirty groups last weekend, that was the best one. The majority were more around 2moa-2.5moa-ish, so I'd say that'd be truer to what the gun shoots with that ammo. I didn't measure any of them -I just eyeballed it, but the targets were on grids of 1" squares so it's pretty close.

I know out of the box these guns are battle rifles, etc, etc. I was just curious why mine wasn't stacking up to the stories I'd heard and read. I'd suspected it was as atr said (ie: the stories are bs). I'm not trying to compare it to one of the 'race gun' m14's around. Also, my last m305 (which I sold) seemed to shoot more consistently and it had nothing done to it(maybe I'm on crack) :rolleyes:

re:the ammo, that was the last of that crate. I've got another whole crate of 1000, but it was bought later on.
 
63799910.jpg


These are my results with Hornady 155gr Amax Moly last weekend. Best group was 1.3MoA, using a Marstar 2nd generation scope mount
 
agit-prop said:
63799910.jpg


These are my results with Hornady 155gr Amax Moly last weekend. Best group was 1.3MoA, using a Marstar 2nd generation scope mount
Click to expand...


Nice graphing. What program?

I was begining to think there are few people if any keeping detailed statistics on their shooting. (sorry for the thread fork fellas...)

I find that individual groups lie, but SD and factorial ANOVA do not.
 
m39a2 said:
Did you have the headspace checked? Did you fit a new bolt? What headspace was it set at?

Scott
Dycor Special Services
Click to expand...

Scott - the headspace hasn't bee checked by me. I have been trying to find someone who can measure some shells for me but Hungry is out of country and Skullboy hasn't responded to my PM yet. I'm going to do something about the headspace if its excessive

Nice graphing. What program?

I was begining to think there are few people if any keeping detailed statistics on their shooting
Click to expand...

Microsoft excel. I'm measuring height and width and entering the data in two columns and then set up an if function < =IF(B2>C2,B2,C2) >to select the higher value for graphing.
 
With my limited bit of M14 shooting I've been impressed. A few months ago I got to shoot a Norinco with a Springfield bolt. Using an Eotech sight I was able to keep five shots into about an inch and a half at 150 yards. I thought that was a damn fine result for a battle rifle and no magnification. I think they're great rifles and hopefully I'll have one of my own in the next year or so.

Chuck
 
Not to worry, 2.5 to 1.5 MOA with surplus ammo is quite a respectable showing.
I'm running 3 MOA with mine using the cheap commercial ammo; some day I will get around to trying some handloads with my good components.
 
When the DCRA was restricted to military issue ammunition, they had a generous bullseye and several seven and ten shot matches. When the military cancelled the ammo allotment and the shooters went to roll your owns, they had to reduce the bullseye, then change the tiebreaking rules (twice), lengthen many matches to ten and fifteen shots, and finally implement countback V-bull scoring. Maybe this explains a connection between your military surplus ammo and a dissatisfaction with your groups.
 
OK, I ran a load development series using Benchmark and got a 0.92 MoA group that would have been 0.424 MoA except for one flyer.

The rifle is set up with the following:

Marstar spring guide
Marstar 2nd gen. scope mount
Marstar recoil buffer
Rooster33 tac latch
Boyds laminate stock

Everything else is Norinco original.

Brass was twice fired, trimmed, deburred and neck sized only.
Powder was Hodgdon Benchmark, a little warmer than mid-range, about 1.5 - 2.0 gr below maximum.
Primers were CCI BR-2
Bullets were Hdy A-max moly 155gr
 
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