m14s accuracy, is this the best I can get from it?
- Thread starter BC_Guy
- Start date
From the U.S. M-14 field manual... and I am paraphrasing....any rifles not capable of a mean point of impact of 5.5" should be returned to depot.... or something like that. It has been a long time since I've read that manual.
5.5" at 100m that is all that was exected of an out of the box service issue with service ball M-14. I wonder what you expect from a rifle built by someone making about $18.00 per day or less?
Scott
5.5" at 100m that is all that was exected of an out of the box service issue with service ball M-14. I wonder what you expect from a rifle built by someone making about $18.00 per day or less?
Scott
Just an FYI for folks who might be interested...
Stock Norinco.
Used some mild MatchKing loads I had for another gun except that I seated the primers deep and crimped the bullets.
After this bit I was curious so I've shimmed the gas cylinder (.006") and I'm going to scope the gun. Then I'll work up a load for this rifle and see what it can do.
If that's promising I'll get it a fancy stock and bed it and untize the gas system. Otherwise it'll go back to plain-jane stock 'cause ringing the ram at 300m is fun with Chinese-manufactured Norinco surplus ball ammo and open sights, and I still haven't gone 5/5 at speed...
Stock Norinco.
Used some mild MatchKing loads I had for another gun except that I seated the primers deep and crimped the bullets.
After this bit I was curious so I've shimmed the gas cylinder (.006") and I'm going to scope the gun. Then I'll work up a load for this rifle and see what it can do.
If that's promising I'll get it a fancy stock and bed it and untize the gas system. Otherwise it'll go back to plain-jane stock 'cause ringing the ram at 300m is fun with Chinese-manufactured Norinco surplus ball ammo and open sights, and I still haven't gone 5/5 at speed...
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Here is the first group my wife shot with her M14 using Portugese surplus... It's under 2 inches and considering the rifle is topped with a red dot... I think it's very acceptable... (I also set my rifle up the same and groups average between 1 and 2 inches at 100)
Mods were...
Stainless guide rod and buffer
USGI stock
Rooster33 scout mount
ARMS 22 low quick detach rings
Aimpoint M2 clone
Cheers
Jay
Mods were...
Stainless guide rod and buffer
USGI stock
Rooster33 scout mount
ARMS 22 low quick detach rings
Aimpoint M2 clone
Cheers
Jay
Hey now. Play nice please.
I was caught using a slur not intending it as a slur. Rather than ch*c*m, which I find offensive yet seems to be in vogue on this board, I used something else (if you can't guess what it was then don't worry about it), which, when coming from me, should cause no-one offense. However, when one has heard the same word used in a mean, derogatory, racist, or hurtful way, then the spirit in which I intended its use becomes irrelevant.
I was called on it, I was wrong, I changed it.
Too bad I had to check this post for content and only find 1 of 4 posts relating to M14s.If anyone has any further comment you can pm me rather than tying up this thread. If you think this warrants public debate, start another thread.
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- South Cariboo, BC
Nice groups Jay. 
I've wanted some feedback on the accuracy potential of the rooster scout and a red dot. Do you think it would be easier to make good groups with a smaller dot than that model has? Any temptation to add the cheekrest?
And how much did you have to pay the wife to pretend that SHE is the one who shoots a pink m305?
I've wanted some feedback on the accuracy potential of the rooster scout and a red dot. Do you think it would be easier to make good groups with a smaller dot than that model has? Any temptation to add the cheekrest?
And how much did you have to pay the wife to pretend that SHE is the one who shoots a pink m305?
cariboo_kid said:Nice groups Jay.
I've wanted some feedback on the accuracy potential of the rooster scout and a red dot. Do you think it would be easier to make good groups with a smaller dot than that model has? Any temptation to add the cheekrest?
And how much did you have to pay the wife to pretend that SHE is the one who shoots a pink m305?
Ha ha ha... Huntress shoots her own groups... And I refused to pose with that rifle knowing you guys would slaughter me on the forums with photoshop... Furthermore, Huntress has taken 3 whitetailed deer & a bear!!! Heck, she's in there gutting the animal when it's down!
Yes, a 2 moa dot would help, but I think the 4 moa dot is fine out to 200meters. I have yet to shoot at this distance, but here on the east coast shots are in the under 100 meter range 90% of the time...
No temptation to put the cheek-rest on...
Yes, the Rooster33 scout scope mount is well made and holds zero with the ARMS 22 ring and Aimpoint M2 clone...
Cheers
Jay
I was using my M305 (M14S, whatever) last week and I was dissapointed with the results. My smallest group was around 1.4" at 100. Honestly though, the rest were all over, and more like 2 or 3 inches. I felt pretty bad. No excuses either. The wind was low and steady, nice conditions, and I was shooting off of a bipod too.
I blame it on ammo. I was trying out new bullets. I figured I'd use some Hornady Match 168 grainers. I think I'll have to tweak those loads. Last year I had used inexpensive Remington bulk 165 grain bullets over the same powder weight of 43.5 gr. H4895, and I was getting ridiculously small groups. Some were even as small as .3 or .4 horizontally, and under an inch vertically (damn breathing).
So I'd say try handloads, but unlike me, don't be afraid to change your powder weights.
I blame it on ammo. I was trying out new bullets. I figured I'd use some Hornady Match 168 grainers. I think I'll have to tweak those loads. Last year I had used inexpensive Remington bulk 165 grain bullets over the same powder weight of 43.5 gr. H4895, and I was getting ridiculously small groups. Some were even as small as .3 or .4 horizontally, and under an inch vertically (damn breathing).
So I'd say try handloads, but unlike me, don't be afraid to change your powder weights.
OK here we go again. What did you expect to get from a rifle made of 40 year old equipment by people making about 18 cents a day that you paid under $600.00 for? U.S. army specifications called for 5.5 inches at 100m mean group size for acceptance proof from an American made M-14 rifle.
How is your bi-pod mounted?
Is your rifle glass bedded?
Trigger done?
Op rod guide?
Headspaced?
There are so many things that can make an M-14 shoot well and an awfull lot that can make them, shoot badly.
Scott
Dycor Special Services
How is your bi-pod mounted?
Is your rifle glass bedded?
Trigger done?
Op rod guide?
Headspaced?
There are so many things that can make an M-14 shoot well and an awfull lot that can make them, shoot badly.
Scott
Dycor Special Services
The difference between an M-14 that will consistently shoot 2" and one that will consistently shoot 1" can be THOUSANDS of dollars. Is 1" smaller groups worth that much to you??
I've had a few M1A/M-14/M-305 rifles that had almost every possible tweak known to man, no expense spared. One was a SA Super Match with SS barrel and Macmillan glass stock, another was a SA National Match in bedded walnut, another was a hand built SA HVY barrel, and another was a hand built Polytech receiver with all GI parts. All of these rifles shot about 1 1/4" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds with their favorite loads. The best 100 yd group I've personally seen from an M-14/M1A/M305 was 10 shots of 168 GR HPBT into 3/4". This was from a mildly accurised TRW M-14 I'd built for an ex-Brit sniper, and was shot with IRON sights. My personal best group with these type of rifles would be about 1" - 1 1/8", again shot from a mildly tweaked Chinese/GI Bastard I built from scratch, off a bipod, with a 24X scope.
I've also had literally DOZENS of the M-14/M1A/M305 type rifles, in fact nearly every one I've seen, that would shoot under 2" with the load they liked best. This may have required some inexpensive tweaking. Some of these rifles would do 1 1/2" with CHEAP Hirtenberger 7.62 NATO BALL. SO, what more do you need?
Keep in mind that many CHEAP bolt action .308 Rifles, such as the Rem 600, Rem 788, Savage 110 etc can be found that will shoot sub-MOA with NO tweaking, at a cost much less than some of these M-14 accessories or replacement parts, that won't shrink your groups more than a few fractions of an inch.
Spend your "accurising" money on trying out lots of different brands/types of ammo to see which ammo YOUR rifle likes best. The M-14 type of rifles are incredibly ammo sensitive, and groups can vary in the same rifle from 4" to MOA with the right ammo. And don't be surprised if you find one load that shoots near MOA in your bone stock M305. Try this before spending all sorts of CASH on tweaks you may not need.
BTDT ... [;{)
LAZ 1
I've had a few M1A/M-14/M-305 rifles that had almost every possible tweak known to man, no expense spared. One was a SA Super Match with SS barrel and Macmillan glass stock, another was a SA National Match in bedded walnut, another was a hand built SA HVY barrel, and another was a hand built Polytech receiver with all GI parts. All of these rifles shot about 1 1/4" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds with their favorite loads. The best 100 yd group I've personally seen from an M-14/M1A/M305 was 10 shots of 168 GR HPBT into 3/4". This was from a mildly accurised TRW M-14 I'd built for an ex-Brit sniper, and was shot with IRON sights. My personal best group with these type of rifles would be about 1" - 1 1/8", again shot from a mildly tweaked Chinese/GI Bastard I built from scratch, off a bipod, with a 24X scope.
I've also had literally DOZENS of the M-14/M1A/M305 type rifles, in fact nearly every one I've seen, that would shoot under 2" with the load they liked best. This may have required some inexpensive tweaking. Some of these rifles would do 1 1/2" with CHEAP Hirtenberger 7.62 NATO BALL. SO, what more do you need?
Keep in mind that many CHEAP bolt action .308 Rifles, such as the Rem 600, Rem 788, Savage 110 etc can be found that will shoot sub-MOA with NO tweaking, at a cost much less than some of these M-14 accessories or replacement parts, that won't shrink your groups more than a few fractions of an inch.
Spend your "accurising" money on trying out lots of different brands/types of ammo to see which ammo YOUR rifle likes best. The M-14 type of rifles are incredibly ammo sensitive, and groups can vary in the same rifle from 4" to MOA with the right ammo. And don't be surprised if you find one load that shoots near MOA in your bone stock M305. Try this before spending all sorts of CASH on tweaks you may not need.
BTDT ... [;{)
LAZ 1
"The best 100 yd group I've personally seen from an M-14/M1A/M305 was 10 shots of 168 GR HPBT into 3/4". This was from a mildly accurised TRW M-14 I'd built for an ex-Brit sniper, and was shot with IRON sights."
This may be proof of the idea that shooting is a 50/50 proposition, accurate rifle, and a very experienced shooter. All of the gadgets in the world won't make up for a lack of time on the range.It doesn't really matter what you do in the way of equipment if the operator lacks the experience to make it work.
This may be proof of the idea that shooting is a 50/50 proposition, accurate rifle, and a very experienced shooter. All of the gadgets in the world won't make up for a lack of time on the range.It doesn't really matter what you do in the way of equipment if the operator lacks the experience to make it work.
