M14s barrel fits onto a Garand receiver

Grizzlypeg

Grizzlypeg

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I was just playing around with some parts, and see that an M14s barrel screws into a Breda Garand receiver. Is it possible to rebuild our banned M14s / M305's into Garands using the M14 barrel and gas system?

With a little digging, proof below that is has been done before.

http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-202101.html

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I have tinkered with one of these hybrid projects.
A M305 barrel torqued into a Breda receiver with proper index. Correct headspace with a Springfield bolt.
I have a M-1 operating rod with damaged piston end which could be used. Would need a M305 op. rod which could be sacrificed.
The real trick is going to be combining the back end of the M-1 rod with the front end of a M305 op. rod. Things have to line up properly with an op. rod guide to keep movement in line. Excellent welding needed.
As discussed in that CMP discussion link, there is a lot of tinkering involved.
It would be very helpful to see detailed photos of a successful conversion, along with good dimensioned drawings.
 
Interesting run down of how one guy made a gas tappet Garand from the CMP forum link.

"I built one many years ago, in fact before I was sent to Iraq so it was before 2004. The only real challenge is the op rod. I used a M1 op rod, cut and straitened it. Made a hard plug to take the blow of the M14 piston. Used a Wolf Tanker spring. Make a bronze bushing and silvered it into the M14 barrel or rod guide. Grafted a M14 thick birch front section onto a M1 birch stock with dowels and glue. That was hard making sure the stock sections stayed lined up. Worked flawlessly. Was accurate and not worth doing again because of all the labor, hahaha. It was a fun project and light and pointed very well. I used packed sand in the op rod tube to bend it and not distort or crush it. Lots of heat and wooden blocks with groves cut the size of the or rod OD to press the tube straight. Have water handy, the wood will char and flame a bit. I'd go a touch under size if I was doing again as the grove grows a bit as the wood burns. I'd build a jig as well to hold the stock sections in place. I used a long board, clamps, nails, tape and the kitchen sink it seems to hold it together while the glue set. I might even consider a miter joint like the Finish Army used on the M39 stock, I did not own a M39 when I make mine so I never even thought about that."
 
As described in the quote from the CMP site, a M-1 op. rod can be altered. Might be tricky, but might be easier than cutting and welding M-1 and M305 op. rods.
M-1 receivers can still be had for reasonable prices. M305 barrels do turn up.
 
There's a surplus of currently unused M305 rifles that could be converted to M1 Garand hybrids. I have several, and a few spare barrels and other parts. I also have a 308 Garand on its way, that I can use to compare the two setups and see what parts I can mix and match or modify.
 
Harvesting parts from a doomed M305 might not be a bad idea. If there actually is a buy out, M305s weren't particularly expensive, so compensation would be limited.

Mention was made above of a M-1 stock paving the front part of a M-14 stock spliced onto it. This would be a great place to use a Typo-2 stock.

Most M305 trigger parts can be transplanted into a M-1 trigger housing. The rear sight too. If starting with a M-1 receiver, there are a lot of parts in the action, so anything harvested would help.

I think the big part of the conversion is the operating rod.
 
Stolen from the M14 Forum:

The following Garand Parts can be used on your commercial M14 type rifle:

Stock Assembly
Butt Plate without shoulder rest (flapper), but only on early style M14 stocks. Most likely your rifle or parts kit does not have this type of stock.
Butt Swivel
Lower Butt Plate Screw
Trigger Housing Group
Hammer
Hammer Pin
Hammer Spring Guide
Hammer Spring Housing
Hammer Spring
Safety
Trigger
Trigger Pin
Rear Sight Group
Sight Base
Sight Cover
Windage Knob
Elevating Pinion (Garand is calibrated in yards, M14 in Meters, but in civilian life we mix the two)
Sight Aperture
A note of explanation: Elevating and Windage Knobs produced during WWII are different than postwar. Most rifles and kits contain postwar design as they are far superior. Years ago SA Inc. produced rifles with WWII knobs. Both WWII and postwar knobs interchange with all the other sight parts. However, the postwar and wartime knobs do not interchange amongst themselves. You can have either design, but not one of each in your rear sight assembly.
Bolt Assembly
Extractor (There are three basic types and all can be used in your commercial rifle)
Extractor Spring and Plunger
A note of explanation. There is some confusion on Ejector Assemblies. The Garand exists in two types, one has a longer spring than the other. The M14 ejector spring has a larger diameter and is longer than either Garand ejector. The ejector assembly was one of the many improvements made on the M14. They do not interchange.

Rear Hand Guard Spring Clip...I forgot this one. I am surprised nobody pointed it out.
 
That conversion is a bit different. The M-14 barrel assembly is being fitted to a modified M-1 receiver which has been altered to accept M-14 magazines. The operating rod is a hybrid M-1/M-14, but it is set up to use a M-14 type spring guide and front magazine catch. To use a M-1 receiver with en bloc magazine, the operating rod arrangement has to be different.
 
Here are photos of a M-1 receiver with M305 barrel installed, with M-1 bolt. The M-1 operating rod is shown with the bolt open and closed. The point indicated with the black marker is where the end of the operating rod would be.

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Thanks, that is helpful.

I understand some of the differences there would be between using the M1 Garand follower mechanism and related parts to support the original Garand integral magazine, vs going M14 op rod guide and detachable magazine. All of that certainly impacts the modified op rod that would need to be used. I think I will have a better visualization of this when my Garand arrives and I can lay them side by side with the stocks off, and compare.
 
I thought I had downloaded a photo of a rifle's action with a hybrid M-1/M-14 cut and welded operating rod. Can't find it.
 
I think if one wants to retain the en block clip system of the M1 Garand, it would be best to use a Garand op rod, cut down and capped off, guided by an appropriate bushing, to mate up with the piston of the M14 gas system. It would be a waste of two op rods to weld them together. Op rods are pretty expensive.

I've also read of using an M14 op rod, with some welding to build up the bolt cam surface, so that it will work with a Garand bolt. But that would mean using an M14 magazine system, which entails a whole lot more modification to the Garand receiver, or complications of using the M14 op rod to actuate a Garand guide rod and mag follower system (I hope I am expressing that correctly).

I tried an M14 bolt in my Garand receiver, and it fits, but the bridge being some 1/2" further back, the rear of the bolt doesn't clear the bridge as it rotates and moves rearward. One would have to cut and shorten the Garand receiver, as has been done in some cases.

Shortening a Garand receiver to take an M14 bolt might arguably be the manufacturing of an M14 receiver, which is prohibited.
 
I think that you are correct - altering a M-1 operating rod might be the best route. The one in my photos is damaged at the piston end - got it for that reason - wouldn't have to alter a good one. By the same token, it is repairable, and I have a new piston head to silver solder in place. I'm waiting to see what Justin does. If my M-305 is doomed, I'll break it for parts and chop the receiver.
 
I have also read that using a Garand tanker spring with 4 coils removed, worked for someone who use a shortened Garand op rod butted up to an M14 gas piston assembly.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
I have also read that using a Garand tanker spring with 4 coils removed, worked for someone who use a shortened Garand op rod butted up to an M14 gas piston assembly.
Click to expand...

Yes i have built several of these hybrids and all one has to do is length the M1 Garand stock with fore end section of a M1A M305, As for the op rod I used a M305 op rod shortened to work with the M1 Garand op rod used the M305 as an outer sleeve and used a Garand Tanker spring
 
Savage said:
Yes i have built several of these hybrids and all one has to do is length the M1 Garand stock with fore end section of a M1A M305, As for the op rod I used a M305 op rod shortened to work with the M1 Garand op rod used the M305 as an outer sleeve and used a Garand Tanker spring
Click to expand...

Thanks for piping in.

So you used the M1 Garand op rod for the rear section that engages the bolt, and part of an M305 for the forward section? I would prefer not to consume two op rods to complete this project, if it can be done with just one. If I'm reading you right, why did you use part of an M305 op rod? If it is sectioned, where did you section it?

Got any pictures to share?

Also, did you use the Garand en bloc magazine, or convert to M14 style removable mags?
 
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