M1A and M1 Fail Spectacularly
- Thread starter Goose762
- Start date
- Location
- Aaaaaadmontin AB
Me neither.
Yannow - if ya really wanna see and M1A fail spectacularly, get about ten sticks of TNT and duct tape it to the gun and set it off! THAT will prove the gun's weaknesses REAL good!
We see this all the time. I was out at the range shooting my boutique AR when some kid off the short bus with an SKS started schooling me on marksmanship and riflery. I was going to speak a couple times, but he talked right over me and kept on chugging about how his gun was every bit as good as mine and even better, in some situations. So I sat there and enjoyed my lecture and when the kid finally shut his pie hole and wandered off to harangue somebody else - I noticed the AR guru at our club smirking to himself. If I recall he was an armourer in the Canadian Armed forces during his stint. "You handled yourself well, One Lung," he said. "With self control like that - a fella like you should be able to drill bullseyes all day long!" We both had a chuckle at that - and LOL'd when one of our hapless friends got caught a few benches down by that SKS retard. He was shooting an M1A and getting the lecture on why his gun was a piece of junk too. He was a nice guy too and took his punishment with the same stoicism I did.
I don't care what the self proclaimed experts think. When I roll out my shooting mat and sling up and snuggle up to the stock for a carefully executed prone shot - NOTHING ... and I mean NOTHING... AR or what have you...feels as good and confidence inspiring as the M1A. Maybe the M1 Garand does - I wouldn't know because all you fuggin slobs have snapped them all up, so poor old sad sacks like Yours Truly have to get by with these crappy M1A's. I would love to relax for some formal shooting with a well tuned vintage M1. Maybe some day...
Oh well, if I was cool and savvy enough - I would be shooting an SKS like the pro's do. Have a good weekend boys - I am off to the range as soon as I post this - hopefully we'll see ya out there!
Yannow - if ya really wanna see and M1A fail spectacularly, get about ten sticks of TNT and duct tape it to the gun and set it off! THAT will prove the gun's weaknesses REAL good!
We see this all the time. I was out at the range shooting my boutique AR when some kid off the short bus with an SKS started schooling me on marksmanship and riflery. I was going to speak a couple times, but he talked right over me and kept on chugging about how his gun was every bit as good as mine and even better, in some situations. So I sat there and enjoyed my lecture and when the kid finally shut his pie hole and wandered off to harangue somebody else - I noticed the AR guru at our club smirking to himself. If I recall he was an armourer in the Canadian Armed forces during his stint. "You handled yourself well, One Lung," he said. "With self control like that - a fella like you should be able to drill bullseyes all day long!" We both had a chuckle at that - and LOL'd when one of our hapless friends got caught a few benches down by that SKS retard. He was shooting an M1A and getting the lecture on why his gun was a piece of junk too. He was a nice guy too and took his punishment with the same stoicism I did.
I don't care what the self proclaimed experts think. When I roll out my shooting mat and sling up and snuggle up to the stock for a carefully executed prone shot - NOTHING ... and I mean NOTHING... AR or what have you...feels as good and confidence inspiring as the M1A. Maybe the M1 Garand does - I wouldn't know because all you fuggin slobs have snapped them all up, so poor old sad sacks like Yours Truly have to get by with these crappy M1A's. I would love to relax for some formal shooting with a well tuned vintage M1. Maybe some day...
Oh well, if I was cool and savvy enough - I would be shooting an SKS like the pro's do. Have a good weekend boys - I am off to the range as soon as I post this - hopefully we'll see ya out there!
Way more realistic test. Still think the m1a would choke pretty quick. Still think it's my favourite rifle I own hands down.
Makes sense, water can defeat that sealed system easy enough. Note that that it fires, extracts, ejects and returns to battery every time. Gas tube's probably full of water, preventing it from cycling. It could probably be drained quickly and easily just by tilting the muzzle up for a second.
That was my though, the gas tube must be full of water or clogged by some debris. I asked him to do more test like that but he thinks it is a waste of time.
Not surprising. From his other videos and comments he strikes me as somewhat arrogant.
Yeah he is quite a character.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Aye and it failed for other reasons because it was rushed into service to get it into the jungles of Vietnam. It had to be. The project to replace the M14 with the AR15 was well under way. Production of the M14 had stopped to make way for the new AR design to become A1. Then Vietnam fired up. There weren't even enough M14's to arm half the soldiers and the war/deployed troops was escalating fast.
Primarily 3 issues led to the initial failures:
1. No cleaning kit was issued with the rifle, very little familiarization with troops prior to sending them into firefights with it. Literally zero cleaning kits for a new rifle rushed into service directly into a war with some of the most horrid environmental conditions ever seen!
2. Chamber and bore NOT chrome lined to resist corrosion (coupled with NO CLEANING KITS in the humid soaking jungles of Asia mind you)
3. And 3 the US military chose a propellant they knew caused excessive fouling but chose it anyhow as standard for the M196 cartridge to get the cartridge and the rifle into Vietnam ASAP and not have to go back to the drawing board and leave troops without a rifle in a war.
Number 3 combined with 1 and 2 meant the "legendary M16 Vietnam failures" were caused 99% by badly corroded chambers. Soldiers would chamber a round, fire it, failure to extract case and almost impossible to get the case out. Prior to the failure reports, actual performance of the rifle in Vietnam was outstanding on the contrary. Only after the chambers started corroding did the issues begin.
The issue was so scandalous it went to the highest levels of investigation and culminated in the Ichord subcommittee.
The issues were hammered out over time ie cleaning kit, chromed bores and barrels, proper training and better propellant. Other shortcomings are apparent these days primarily the lackluster terminal ballistic performance of the M855 cartridge stemming from idiotic demands about the round having to pierce an armour helmet at 400 meters etc but this too is being corrected. The newish MK318 5.56mm Cartridge is one of the very well designed solutions to the problem.
The AR15 is masterpiece of a modern firearm design. It was ahead of its time by decades when Stoner cooked it up and it's still holding its own.
I just wish to god I could actually shoot one outside of a range! lol
Those are historical facts - thank you.
The AR continues to have tax payer funding available for testing, evaluation, and improvements.
Today's AR masterpiece is a result of decades of improvement, and untold millions spent.
For the most part, the M14s that remain property of the US military have sat in storage until the year 2000.
I don't believe the military M14 has ever received any additional funding for testing, evaluation, and improvements.
Sure, it received titty sprinkles of tax payer money that resulted in the EBR & Crazy Horse.
Aftermarket goodies blossomed with their success, and the private sector continues to invest in the M14.
The AR continues to have tax payer funding available for testing, evaluation, and improvements.
Today's AR masterpiece is a result of decades of improvement, and untold millions spent.
For the most part, the M14s that remain property of the US military have sat in storage until the year 2000.
I don't believe the military M14 has ever received any additional funding for testing, evaluation, and improvements.
Sure, it received titty sprinkles of tax payer money that resulted in the EBR & Crazy Horse.
Aftermarket goodies blossomed with their success, and the private sector continues to invest in the M14.
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I feel sorry for all rifles involved in these tests in the all vids shown, they did nothing to deserve this they were just sitting around in a safe and all the sudden they get molested in mud its a dam shame 
Good tests either way you look at it, as others have said in combat and in the heat of the moments when stuff starts flying you dont often get to choose the best place to available to dive for cover, yes its important to protect what defends you but sometimes pristine and clean conditions are not always available.
I love the M14 it is my favorite rifle, and the Garand is a extremely close second, I love everything about them they way they look, the way they feel and function I enjoy shooting them over any other rifle, that being said I still love my SP1 too!
If I ever had to choose between the 2 I'd still go with the M14, thats just my humble opinion tho. I still think the tests are fair and show good results and good to know our forces are using reliable rifles.
Good tests either way you look at it, as others have said in combat and in the heat of the moments when stuff starts flying you dont often get to choose the best place to available to dive for cover, yes its important to protect what defends you but sometimes pristine and clean conditions are not always available.
I love the M14 it is my favorite rifle, and the Garand is a extremely close second, I love everything about them they way they look, the way they feel and function I enjoy shooting them over any other rifle, that being said I still love my SP1 too!
If I ever had to choose between the 2 I'd still go with the M14, thats just my humble opinion tho. I still think the tests are fair and show good results and good to know our forces are using reliable rifles.Are you suggesting if we were to spend millions now on the M14 it would be right up there as the "top gun" ?
If so, I do not believe that. Have no doubt it can be improved upon but it will never get to where it needs to be in the ergonomics, weight and modular dept's.
ipscgraz
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The rifle and cartridge were sufficient to have the NVA issue a SOP to "Not engage troops carrying the black rifle" when the M 16's first arrived in the field.
Any depression in a time of rain. I have done it many times in exercises. Clearly a lot of people here have not spent any time in the Military and are commenting on things they simply don't know about. I think the OP's basic thoughts are correct. Military firearms in general have gotten better and more reliable over time. A lot more time is spent in testing modern military firearms in adverse conditions than ever was in the old days. OK the example test was very simplistic but it is pretty hard to cover all the testing done on modern firearms and the basic point is still valid.
Not sure how this thread descended into a discussion of the M16/AR15 and why it had troubles early on. The simple truth is whatever caused the trouble has been corrected and it has turned into a very good firearm. The only real issue remaining are the cartridges it uses and even that has been improved a lot. Personally if I was going into combat I would rather have a modern M16 series rifle than a Garand or M14. I have a collection of WW2 firearms that I really like but I wouldn't want to go into combat with them.
- Location
- anywhere but here
Later posts in this thread has confirmed my opinion that the only answer is to own representative examples of all the food groups- AR's, M14 variants, etc.
By top gun I meant the main small arms issued.... like the AR is now.
Doesn't matter what it could have been, I'm not buying that.
That's like saying a Carcano could have been the US Army's bolt action sniper rifle .... if they just threw enough money at it.
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move forward.
Not a knock against the AR, but that SOP had more to do with the men carrying the rifle. The first users of the AR were the Air Cav and Green Berets. If either of those groups had been outfitted with slingshots, the SOP would have been to "Not engage troops carrying the stick with rubber bands."
