Yeah I looked on the LRB website and just the action itself is $2000 US...even more in Canada I assume! I like working on my Norc, I did a few things to it and like to tinker. I had in mind to get the norc and make it good enough at a low cost doing the work myself but the more I think about it and a LRB would be great for the perfection. Perfection is art.
M1A or Norinco M305
- Thread starter MiniMe
- Start date
Yeah I looked on the LRB website and just the action itself is $2000 US...even more in Canada I assume! I like working on my Norc, I did a few things to it and like to tinker. I had in mind to get the norc and make it good enough at a low cost doing the work myself but the more I think about it and a LRB would be great for the perfection. Perfection is art.
I've owned about 8 norcs - some of which I sent to Thomas when he was the M14 Doc for him to work magic on and some I played with DIY improvements. I also bought ( from Thomas ) a real Hybrid that was actually a 'lunch pail' special - now there was a story. Added to the norcs, I've owned a SAI 'Loaded' and a SAI National Match. I currently own a LRB M25 Medium Match - it was for sale to pay for a new toy but the Gun Gods smiled upon me and other sales came through so the LRB is back in the safe !
OK, so having owned a variety of M14 type rifles hopefully I can speak without being flamed as a fanboy or hater. Here is what I think:
Prices: A very wide range Norc about $600 up to SAI for a couple of grand or more depending upon model or an LRB like mine at $3500 US.
Fit and Finish: Norcs big weakness. SAI much better BUT not perfect. JRA supposed to be better and LRB very much so.
Receiver: Norc is forged so is LRB whereas SAI is cast. Honestly though I think Cast vs Forged is a pointless argument. Properly cast will outlast you and the 'real' M14 was forged because back in the day that was cheaper anyway.
Accuracy: An out of the box Norc can shoot or, at least, be made to shoot. Spin on a new barrel and it will shoot as good as a SAI. A SAI NM will usually shoot better ( it is bedded ) and I've heard the SAI Supermatch are really good. BUT - and here is the rub - no matter what you spend on a M14-style rifle, your bog standard bolt action Remy 700 will likely print tighter groups.
Stocks: SAI will be better but ditch the Norc one anyway. Better stocks ought not to be the thing you make your decision on.
Triggers: Norcs are poor here. SAI is better and my NM was very nice.
My advice - if new to the platform get a Norc and see if you like it ( honestly, I give the same adice to someone starting out with AR's.) If you like the M14-type of rifle and can afford to spend more then spend more - the M14 is a real money pit and will happily take all your cash - BUT you don't have to spend more as a properly tweaked Norc can do everything one can reasonably expect a M14-type rifle to do.
For LRB fans or those simply interested here is a pic of perfection - thankfully no longer for sale !
OK, so having owned a variety of M14 type rifles hopefully I can speak without being flamed as a fanboy or hater. Here is what I think:
Prices: A very wide range Norc about $600 up to SAI for a couple of grand or more depending upon model or an LRB like mine at $3500 US.
Fit and Finish: Norcs big weakness. SAI much better BUT not perfect. JRA supposed to be better and LRB very much so.
Receiver: Norc is forged so is LRB whereas SAI is cast. Honestly though I think Cast vs Forged is a pointless argument. Properly cast will outlast you and the 'real' M14 was forged because back in the day that was cheaper anyway.
Accuracy: An out of the box Norc can shoot or, at least, be made to shoot. Spin on a new barrel and it will shoot as good as a SAI. A SAI NM will usually shoot better ( it is bedded ) and I've heard the SAI Supermatch are really good. BUT - and here is the rub - no matter what you spend on a M14-style rifle, your bog standard bolt action Remy 700 will likely print tighter groups.
Stocks: SAI will be better but ditch the Norc one anyway. Better stocks ought not to be the thing you make your decision on.
Triggers: Norcs are poor here. SAI is better and my NM was very nice.
My advice - if new to the platform get a Norc and see if you like it ( honestly, I give the same adice to someone starting out with AR's.) If you like the M14-type of rifle and can afford to spend more then spend more - the M14 is a real money pit and will happily take all your cash - BUT you don't have to spend more as a properly tweaked Norc can do everything one can reasonably expect a M14-type rifle to do.
For LRB fans or those simply interested here is a pic of perfection - thankfully no longer for sale !
In what Thomas pointed out was the most civil M305 vs M1A debate in memory you have managed to make a completely opinionated and inflammatory post that has added nothing of value. Springfield Armory Inc was a name legally available and these guys grabbed it. It's a non issue and I don't hear anyone crying about the name Rockola being used.
I've owned about 8 norcs - some of which I sent to Thomas when he was the M14 Doc for him to work magic on and some I played with DIY improvements. I also bought ( from Thomas ) a real Hybrid that was actually a 'lunch pail' special - now there was a story. Added to the norcs, I've owned a SAI 'Loaded' and a SAI National Match. I currently own a LRB M25 Medium Match - it was for sale to pay for a new toy but the Gun Gods smiled upon me and other sales came through so the LRB is back in the safe !
OK, so having owned a variety of M14 type rifles hopefully I can speak without being flamed as a fanboy or hater. Here is what I think:
Prices: A very wide range Norc about $600 up to SAI for a couple of grand or more depending upon model or an LRB like mine at $3500 US.
Fit and Finish: Norcs big weakness. SAI much better BUT not perfect. JRA supposed to be better and LRB very much so.
Receiver: Norc is forged so is LRB whereas SAI is cast. Honestly though I think Cast vs Forged is a pointless argument. Properly cast will outlast you and the 'real' M14 was forged because back in the day that was cheaper anyway.
Accuracy: An out of the box Norc can shoot or, at least, be made to shoot. Spin on a new barrel and it will shoot as good as a SAI. A SAI NM will usually shoot better ( it is bedded ) and I've heard the SAI Supermatch are really good. BUT - and here is the rub - no matter what you spend on a M14-style rifle, your bog standard bolt action Remy 700 will likely print tighter groups.
Stocks: SAI will be better but ditch the Norc one anyway. Better stocks ought not to be the thing you make your decision on.
Triggers: Norcs are poor here. SAI is better and my NM was very nice.
My advice - if new to the platform get a Norc and see if you like it ( honestly, I give the same adice to someone starting out with AR's.) If you like the M14-type of rifle and can afford to spend more then spend more - the M14 is a real money pit and will happily take all your cash - BUT you don't have to spend more as a properly tweaked Norc can do everything one can reasonably expect a M14-type rifle to do.
For LRB fans or those simply interested here is a pic of perfection - thankfully no longer for sale !
Good post above. Seems pretty balanced.
I'll add this. I've owned two GI M14 rifles 3 Springfield and an LRB. The finish on the SAI rifles is as good as any. The he accuracy is as good as any and my Supermatch is best. I've had one issue with my Springfield standard when it was new the trigger pin failed right away. It was replaced free of charge in a week. Since then I've stockpiled some USGI parts including the trigger and bolt groups. A good idea with any of these rifles. These parts won't be available forever.
Maybe I'm just lucky but my SAI rifles work great and I have no reservations about putting face behind a cast receiver. A friend of mine recently purchased a Norinco and I went with him to check it out. Everything checked out great but I did miss a non functioning safety. We tore it down ad greased it up spent a bit of time on the safety with a file and the rifle works fine. Surprisingly accurate with Norinco ammo. So will I own one? No I have other M14's but as an entry level rifle its hard to beat.
Non-biased real world experience posts from folks like Tomochan, Seafury, Barney and sometimes Thomas
make these posts very informative for a newbie(at least for me).
I bought a m305 "tweaked" by Barney to get into the platform. It worked flawlessly but like all my Norcs (bought to test the waters) it was replaced with a
SA Socom16…and I haven't looked back.
Get what floats your boat….and enjoy the snot out of it.
make these posts very informative for a newbie(at least for me). I bought a m305 "tweaked" by Barney to get into the platform. It worked flawlessly but like all my Norcs (bought to test the waters) it was replaced with a
SA Socom16…and I haven't looked back.
Get what floats your boat….and enjoy the snot out of it.
TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
Buy what works for your game, your budget, your comfort level, your kool factor, your fondle factor, your tweaking factor, and the movie you will watch on Crave/Netflix with.
Oh yah, Thomas and Tomochan convinced me in subtle way to buy an LRB. I've owned them all and built on all of them. At the end of the day, it's an LRB for us. But my wife loves the fact that I have fewer boomsticks in the safe (that's how chairlift operators can buy an LRB).
One thing we can all share is our own personal journeys along the M14 learning curve! AND what we have in common is the ability to share and help all the other newbs here on this forum!
Just look at all the off-M14 posts that end up here (ex: milsurp questions, black rifle questions) !! That's because all of you are great dudes willing to help out!
The more I get pulled into the Precision Rifle game and CQB game (I'm writing the ORA Rule Book right now), the more I miss this forum! I'm teaching and running more PR and CQB events this season, but I miss telling stories and jokes about the M14!
So keep on learning about the M14, it's history, it's faults, and it's tweaks. That's the fun we share!
Barney
Oh yah, Thomas and Tomochan convinced me in subtle way to buy an LRB. I've owned them all and built on all of them. At the end of the day, it's an LRB for us. But my wife loves the fact that I have fewer boomsticks in the safe (that's how chairlift operators can buy an LRB).
One thing we can all share is our own personal journeys along the M14 learning curve! AND what we have in common is the ability to share and help all the other newbs here on this forum!
Just look at all the off-M14 posts that end up here (ex: milsurp questions, black rifle questions) !! That's because all of you are great dudes willing to help out!
The more I get pulled into the Precision Rifle game and CQB game (I'm writing the ORA Rule Book right now), the more I miss this forum! I'm teaching and running more PR and CQB events this season, but I miss telling stories and jokes about the M14!
So keep on learning about the M14, it's history, it's faults, and it's tweaks. That's the fun we share!
Barney
This. I think a lot depends on the kind of experience you're looking for from the rifle. I look at Norcs pretty much as kit guns, where easily half the fun is hot-rodding them. Others might prefer a more polished "it just works" out-of-the-box experience, either because tinkering doesn't appeal to them or they've just become tired of it being a requirement. I can totally understand that; I work with Linux professionally but at home it's all OS X
You are right but depending on your financial situation one option is doable, the other might not be. If I waited until I could afford a Springfield I might not have one until I retire whereas it's pretty reasonable to spend $500 on a Norc, then $50 here & $100 there until you have a really nice platform built.
I am friends with a fellow in his sixties who's life long (adult) dream has been to own a Springfield M1a loaded but has never been able to come up with the $2200 he needs. He turned his nose up at me when I told him I have the Norc version lol. At the end of the day though I am out blasting the crap out of targets, water jugs, & trees at the gravel pit as well as planning deer/elk hunts for fall while he sits at home reading about Springfield M1a's
My wife, a gorgeous farm girl herself, took one look at that picture and called bull####. "No rubber boot tan lines."
You sir found a real lady!
I love reading these posts. Y'all seem like such a great bunch.
I just sighted in my m305 for the first time and had a blast. Burris e1 with casm mount. This gun is just too damn ###y.
eaglesnester
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
They both have issues. I have a newer Norinco, no issues mounted it on a Sage stock, shoots 1 to 1.5 MOA, with 165 grain SMK and RE-15 at 100 meters. This is within specifications for designated marksman or designated sniper in US Marine Corps rifle company. U pays yur money and ya takes yur chance.
eaglesnester
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
U could almost say that the ChiCom M305 are more real than the so called new Springfields that are currently sold. At least all of the machine tools that originally manufactured the Springfield were sold to China and are used to make the Norinco.
here we go again- the military machine tools were NOT sold to china ( communist) but TIAWAN- ( Formosa) .- I WISH YOU GUYS WOULD GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS- the m14s we're receiving from mainland china( norinco, poly, etc) are REVERSE -ENGINEERED FROM USGI dropped m14s captured by the Viet Cong during that war and the first ones were built for Filipino guerrillas to overthrow that government
I think there is only a couple guys around here that have the "china has the G.I. tooling" stuck in their heads LOL
I've given up trying to be the history police , too frustrating hehehehehe
just google lee emerson and the history and development of the m14 , it's all in there folks.
then you don't look like a boob on the internet LOL
trust u to get it backwards- usa sold the WINCHESTER tooling to tiawan period
THERE ARE 2 CHINAS
the island and mainland- one is independent of the other and one is friendly to the states- ie Formosa, Taiwan whatever u want to call it
the OTHER CHINA- COMMUNIST- BIGGEST THREAT TO THE AMERICANS
it's these guys that took the American m14s off the vc. nva, or whatever - ie the Vietnamese, and reverse engineered them to get the machine tools to make a batch for the Filipino guerrillas to overthrow the government- it's the decendants of those tools we're shooting today
THERE ARE 2 CHINAS
the island and mainland- one is independent of the other and one is friendly to the states- ie Formosa, Taiwan whatever u want to call it
the OTHER CHINA- COMMUNIST- BIGGEST THREAT TO THE AMERICANS
it's these guys that took the American m14s off the vc. nva, or whatever - ie the Vietnamese, and reverse engineered them to get the machine tools to make a batch for the Filipino guerrillas to overthrow the government- it's the decendants of those tools we're shooting today
So....has anyone heard much about the Rock-o-la rifles?
My friend wants my M-305, and I know that someday I will want another M-14 pattern rifle. Can't afford LRB, looks like I don't want Springfield, and I don't want another Norc (been there done that).
JRA is pricy, but could be realistic if I pare down the collection and save a bit.
yes I'll do my own research when the time comes, in a year or two. I was just curious to see which way the wind was blowing with regards to these.
My friend wants my M-305, and I know that someday I will want another M-14 pattern rifle. Can't afford LRB, looks like I don't want Springfield, and I don't want another Norc (been there done that).
JRA is pricy, but could be realistic if I pare down the collection and save a bit.
yes I'll do my own research when the time comes, in a year or two. I was just curious to see which way the wind was blowing with regards to these.
Everybody is always saying BUY A NORC and then mod it to be just as good as a Springfield Armory for LESS! this idea sort of attracts me, but everywhere I look, all the good M1a parts are ALWAYS > OUT OF STOCK. In the amount of time it seems id spend just waiting for parts to be back in stock, my nickel jar would be full enough to just outright by a SA NM and get it over with lol
