Talk about a great day at the range! I took a couple of friends out to the range yesterday and met M14forum member bfoosh006 at the range for a fun day of shooting and chrono data collection.
My goal was to shoot some M118LR through my new build and to chrono the data so i could build up a load. Things I changed since my last outing was was swapping stocks and fixing a loose operating rod guide. I glued my operating rod guide with red loc-tite and it seems to have held very well. I took my old LRB M14SA out of its carbon graphite kevlar stock and fitted my M25 into it. I got better lockup and draw pressure.
All shots fired semi-auto (gas valve on).
I also mounted my M14SA into a SAGE stock and used the CASM mount to see what kind of results I would get.
I loaded 5 batches of handloads using RL15, LC brass, 178gr Hornady match loaded to 2.850". Load charges were 10 rounds of 42.0gr, 42.5gr, 43.0gr and 43.5gr. I had a batch of 43.8gr but I didn't have the cojones to try that load after chronographing the previous loads.
I shot 2 strings of 5 shots each of XM80 ball through the M25/5R rifle.
String 1: ES-11, Average-2879, SD-4.
2882
2884
2883
2877
2873
String 2 (different box of ammo): ES-15, Average-2844, SD-4
2842
2839
2843
2846
2854
I then shot XM80 through my LRB with a 22" 1:12" twist CM barrel in the SAGE stock using ammo from the same box as string number 2 listed above.
ES-62, Average 2788, SD-23.5
2769
2806
2752
2799
2814
This gave me approximately 56FPS of velocity gain just from using the 5R barrel.
I then shot 5 rounds of M118LR through the M14SA. Average velocity was 2609fps, ES-35, SD-13.
2595
2595
2613
2612
2630
I then shot 5 rounds of M118LR through the M25/5R. Average velocity was 2652fps, ES-36, SD-12.1. Group size was 1.183"
2644
2635
2671
2658
2655
The 5R barrel gave me a free velocity gain of 43fps.
I then started chronographing my 178gr hand loads to give me a starting point for my handloads.
42.0 grains gave me a 1.763" group with an average velocity of 2556fps
42.5 grains gave me a 1.235" group with an average velocity of 2609fps
43.0 grains gave me a 1.282" group with an average velocity of 2678fps
43.5 grains gave me 3 shots of 2742, 2726 and 2727. I decided not to tempt fate and stopped there.
So now that the informational stuff was covered, I'll finish off with the other stuff...
First of all, I wanted to give a big thanks to bfoosh006! Every time we get together, he's a kick in the pants! The two guests I brought out today are very good friends of mine but I'm "The Gun Guy". One is Brazilian and the other one is Portuguese and he is actually a former Portuguese Marine.
Since I go to the most strict range in the US, taking guests can be a little overwhelming. Brian, being a member, helped host my two guests. While I shot and showed one how to shoot, Brian took it upon himself to help out with my other guest. I didn't ask him, he just did it and let them take his guns out for a spin. And Brian does have some real nice guns!
Okay, so there was a guy there... I'll just call him 'Tactical Timmy". He must have been in his late 40's, early 50's. He was wearing TACTICAL khakis, TACTICAL knee pads, TACTICAL elbow pads (even though he shot off the bench the whole time), TACTICAL ball cap, TACTICAL boots, TACTICAL ammo vest and had TACTICAL AR-15's! He also had some sort of monstrous TACTICAL bolt action in all black. He was... odd. Anyways, his range etiquette needs some work. He was shooting next to Brian, rattling their teeth with his muzzle brake.
Somehow, Brian made and acquaintance with the guy and one thing led to another and I saw Brian shouldering Tactical Timmy's bolt action and BANG! I caught something out of the corner of my eye and realized it was Tactical Timmy's chronograph that came apart. I think their friendship ended there.
Luckily, Brain had the same model Chrony and he gave Timmy a set of replacement rods. Now back to shooting...
The range officer that day was the best, friendliest I've seen in a long while. He told me he had the same problem as I did using a CED M2 chronograph but that I was there at the best time of the day for my skyscreens to work but I had to hurry before the shadows killed my testing.
I ran some Speer 125gr TNT's through my M25. I loaded 11 rounds and the first round had a different POI than the rest. The next 10 landed in a 0.931" group!
So I adjusted the scope so that POI was the same as POA using a 10-round grou which measured 1.204" and tried the 1 MOA challenge. I scored 7 out of 10. Better than my last time, but not as good as I had hoped. It was all semi-auto too. The rifle is shooting really well! After failing at the test, I fired the remaining five shots on another 1" spot and the group measured 0.875".
These were the last rounds I fired after firing 10 rounds of XM80, 8 rounds of M118LR, 33 rounds of 178gr handloads and 21 rounds of 125's. So I tried the accuracy challenge after firing 72 rounds. I'd still say it went quite well and again, I don't have a unitized gas cylinder and the stock is not bedded. It was only cleared of enough material around the receiver legs to fully seat the action in the stock. Trigger guard lockup is the tightest I've ever had. I actually had to switch trigger groups from my old LRB to get the action to lock down. My other trigger group wouldn't work.
It all worked out okay because the trigger group that I put on my LRB in the SAGE actually drew down the heel enough so there wasn't a gap. Originally, before the swap, there was a slight heel gap.
And to wrap it all up, I shot Brian's M21. It was a great rifle! The group speaks for itself! 1.4" at 100 with Portuguese surplus ammo! However, even though he has a great rifle, he kept eyeballing my M25. I mean, it was somewhat concerning. He did mumble a few times that if I wasn't careful, it might disappear and end up in his truck. I'll have to put a lowjack on it or something before my next range trip with him. Maybe install a "find my M25 app" on my phone.
Accuracy with the SAGE wasn't impressive at all but I need more time to fiddle with it. It wasn't the main focus of the trip anyways. That will be reserved for another trip.
After the trip, we headed out to Famous Dave's BBQ and we feasted! The Portuguese friend told me that after the last two trips to the range, it really changed his image on gun owners in America. He told me that before he met me, he imagined anyone who was a member of the NRA as uneducated, out of touch hillbillies. Meeting myself, Brian and the rest of the friendly people at the range has fully converted him and changed his view of us gun owners. I also helped him see the true meaning of the second amendment and why it is important to us. We need to convert more like him in the Portland area. I'll be helping him build an AR soon, I'm sure.
Again, it was a great day with great friends. Thanks for reading!
Tony.
My goal was to shoot some M118LR through my new build and to chrono the data so i could build up a load. Things I changed since my last outing was was swapping stocks and fixing a loose operating rod guide. I glued my operating rod guide with red loc-tite and it seems to have held very well. I took my old LRB M14SA out of its carbon graphite kevlar stock and fitted my M25 into it. I got better lockup and draw pressure.
All shots fired semi-auto (gas valve on).
I also mounted my M14SA into a SAGE stock and used the CASM mount to see what kind of results I would get.
I loaded 5 batches of handloads using RL15, LC brass, 178gr Hornady match loaded to 2.850". Load charges were 10 rounds of 42.0gr, 42.5gr, 43.0gr and 43.5gr. I had a batch of 43.8gr but I didn't have the cojones to try that load after chronographing the previous loads.
I shot 2 strings of 5 shots each of XM80 ball through the M25/5R rifle.
String 1: ES-11, Average-2879, SD-4.
2882
2884
2883
2877
2873
String 2 (different box of ammo): ES-15, Average-2844, SD-4
2842
2839
2843
2846
2854
I then shot XM80 through my LRB with a 22" 1:12" twist CM barrel in the SAGE stock using ammo from the same box as string number 2 listed above.
ES-62, Average 2788, SD-23.5
2769
2806
2752
2799
2814
This gave me approximately 56FPS of velocity gain just from using the 5R barrel.
I then shot 5 rounds of M118LR through the M14SA. Average velocity was 2609fps, ES-35, SD-13.
2595
2595
2613
2612
2630
I then shot 5 rounds of M118LR through the M25/5R. Average velocity was 2652fps, ES-36, SD-12.1. Group size was 1.183"
2644
2635
2671
2658
2655
The 5R barrel gave me a free velocity gain of 43fps.
I then started chronographing my 178gr hand loads to give me a starting point for my handloads.
42.0 grains gave me a 1.763" group with an average velocity of 2556fps
42.5 grains gave me a 1.235" group with an average velocity of 2609fps
43.0 grains gave me a 1.282" group with an average velocity of 2678fps
43.5 grains gave me 3 shots of 2742, 2726 and 2727. I decided not to tempt fate and stopped there.
So now that the informational stuff was covered, I'll finish off with the other stuff...
First of all, I wanted to give a big thanks to bfoosh006! Every time we get together, he's a kick in the pants! The two guests I brought out today are very good friends of mine but I'm "The Gun Guy". One is Brazilian and the other one is Portuguese and he is actually a former Portuguese Marine.
Since I go to the most strict range in the US, taking guests can be a little overwhelming. Brian, being a member, helped host my two guests. While I shot and showed one how to shoot, Brian took it upon himself to help out with my other guest. I didn't ask him, he just did it and let them take his guns out for a spin. And Brian does have some real nice guns!
Okay, so there was a guy there... I'll just call him 'Tactical Timmy". He must have been in his late 40's, early 50's. He was wearing TACTICAL khakis, TACTICAL knee pads, TACTICAL elbow pads (even though he shot off the bench the whole time), TACTICAL ball cap, TACTICAL boots, TACTICAL ammo vest and had TACTICAL AR-15's! He also had some sort of monstrous TACTICAL bolt action in all black. He was... odd. Anyways, his range etiquette needs some work. He was shooting next to Brian, rattling their teeth with his muzzle brake.
Somehow, Brian made and acquaintance with the guy and one thing led to another and I saw Brian shouldering Tactical Timmy's bolt action and BANG! I caught something out of the corner of my eye and realized it was Tactical Timmy's chronograph that came apart. I think their friendship ended there.
Luckily, Brain had the same model Chrony and he gave Timmy a set of replacement rods. Now back to shooting...
The range officer that day was the best, friendliest I've seen in a long while. He told me he had the same problem as I did using a CED M2 chronograph but that I was there at the best time of the day for my skyscreens to work but I had to hurry before the shadows killed my testing.
I ran some Speer 125gr TNT's through my M25. I loaded 11 rounds and the first round had a different POI than the rest. The next 10 landed in a 0.931" group!
So I adjusted the scope so that POI was the same as POA using a 10-round grou which measured 1.204" and tried the 1 MOA challenge. I scored 7 out of 10. Better than my last time, but not as good as I had hoped. It was all semi-auto too. The rifle is shooting really well! After failing at the test, I fired the remaining five shots on another 1" spot and the group measured 0.875".
These were the last rounds I fired after firing 10 rounds of XM80, 8 rounds of M118LR, 33 rounds of 178gr handloads and 21 rounds of 125's. So I tried the accuracy challenge after firing 72 rounds. I'd still say it went quite well and again, I don't have a unitized gas cylinder and the stock is not bedded. It was only cleared of enough material around the receiver legs to fully seat the action in the stock. Trigger guard lockup is the tightest I've ever had. I actually had to switch trigger groups from my old LRB to get the action to lock down. My other trigger group wouldn't work.
It all worked out okay because the trigger group that I put on my LRB in the SAGE actually drew down the heel enough so there wasn't a gap. Originally, before the swap, there was a slight heel gap.
And to wrap it all up, I shot Brian's M21. It was a great rifle! The group speaks for itself! 1.4" at 100 with Portuguese surplus ammo! However, even though he has a great rifle, he kept eyeballing my M25. I mean, it was somewhat concerning. He did mumble a few times that if I wasn't careful, it might disappear and end up in his truck. I'll have to put a lowjack on it or something before my next range trip with him. Maybe install a "find my M25 app" on my phone.
Accuracy with the SAGE wasn't impressive at all but I need more time to fiddle with it. It wasn't the main focus of the trip anyways. That will be reserved for another trip.
After the trip, we headed out to Famous Dave's BBQ and we feasted! The Portuguese friend told me that after the last two trips to the range, it really changed his image on gun owners in America. He told me that before he met me, he imagined anyone who was a member of the NRA as uneducated, out of touch hillbillies. Meeting myself, Brian and the rest of the friendly people at the range has fully converted him and changed his view of us gun owners. I also helped him see the true meaning of the second amendment and why it is important to us. We need to convert more like him in the Portland area. I'll be helping him build an AR soon, I'm sure.
Again, it was a great day with great friends. Thanks for reading!
Tony.
