M305 - 150 gr. vs. 165 gr bullets

Chas

Chas

CGN frequent flyer
GunNutz
Rating - 100%
389   0   0
Location
N.E. Ont - home of the Concrete Goose
Interesting comparison recently - a close friend and I each purchased a M305 a couple of years ago. I had a pile of 147 gr FMJ bullets that I bought from Hungry about 10 years ago to load in my Garand. I loaded them up in 308 with three or four different powders, with loads listed less than maximum. No matter what load or powder, they all shot 4 - 6" groups. Needless to say, I was less than amused.

My friend loaded his with 165 gr Nosler BT and a medium load of IMR 4350. He was getting consistently 1 - 1.5" groups. He gave me some last fall to try and I never got around to it before the snow fell.

My friend died unexpectedly in January, and I bought his reloading materials and M305 from his brother. A couple of weeks ago, I tested the two rifles. Both shot 4 - 6 inch groups with my various 147-gr loads. Both rifles shot 1.5" groups with the 165-grain loads. I had never fired groups that small with my rifle. I had a few Speer 168 gr match bullets - same thing, 1.25" groups.

So that begs the question - why won’t my M305's shoot the 147-grain loads accurately?

Needless to say, I am stocking up on various 165 gr. bullets for future loading and hunting situations.
 
I think that's just the way things go with M14s. At 100 yrds, I've shot 150s with my M14 and have gotten 1-1.5" groups, I got a hold of some SA surplus (which I believe is 147), and I get 3" groups. 3 measley grains and 2x poorer precission.. Go figure..
 
I found that the heavier round grouped better on my M305 before the tune-up. It actually did a consistent 1.5" at 100M with 180 gr Sierra BT and the 150s where doing 2-3". After the barrel shim, peening, and a new guide rod from Marstar, my 150 grain handloads shrunk down to 1.25". Go figure? I think in general, the rifling likes gripping the larger surface area that the heavier bullet gives. In turn, it somewhat helps spin and stability and translates to accuracy.
 
The .308 loves 165 grain hunting bullets and 168 grain match bullets with IMR4064 using regular large rifle primers. It'll shoot 175 grain Matchkings with the same powder. IMR4350 is ok, but it isn't anywhere near as good as IMR4064 in the .308. IMR4064 is a great powder for .30-06 and the same bullet weights too.
"...147 gr FMJ..." Those are milsurp bullets. They're not made for great accuracy. Neither was the ammo they came from.
One very good thing about your new rifle is that it's very consistent. You'll be able to work up a load that will shoot well with IMR4064.
 
My favorite m305 load is 150Gr Rem CoreLokt PSP. From my rifle it flies around an inch from SA or Chinese .308, which I'm normally practicing with. Also tried Igman 150Gr, they were cheap and not bad at all, but currently hard to find. I was not impressed with my results with any 165Gr at all...
673309.jpg
 
if you do some prowling around on this and other sites you'll find the majority of 305 users use 165-168's - various powders, but 165-168- my personal favorite was a 180 remmy over 44 grains of 748, but that's too strong for a steady diet - however that would group less than .75 inch at 100 out of a stock m14s with the chu wood and a 1 point mount-
 
147gr FMJ are combat bullets and are designed to feed in machine guns. Accuracy of 3 to 6" @ 100meters is acceptable. They generally run a few thousands of an inch under normal hunting and match bullets in case machine gun barrels get hot. You don't want a situation of increased pressure so the undersized bullets aid in that as they rattle down the bore.

For accuracy you need good hunting and match bullets and the fast twist of an M-14 [1-11" to 1-10"] favours the the heavier bullets. I found that 165 to 180gr range to be the best. Of course some rifles will like 150gr too, but again, they are not combat bullets.
 
I've been using the Surplus South African but now I truly want to see what my M14 can do.

That being said is a STEADY diet of 165 grain or 168 grain bullets OK for the M14? Will it have any detrimental effect on the gas system and op-rod?
 
Tehoke01 said:
I've been using the Surplus South African but now I truly want to see what my M14 can do.

That being said is a STEADY diet of 165 grain or 168 grain bullets OK for the M14? Will it have any detrimental effect on the gas system and op-rod?
Click to expand...
Not if you stick to safe loads. Don't overload it.
 
there's an acknowledged upper limit of 175 grains, ( the ODD box of 180's won't hurt, note ODD) but for steady diet, it's 165 for hunting, 168 match- the guys that run 175s are the us army match loads, which don't give a darn about "saving" their rifles- they have a full armory with spares, and don't have to grub for op rods and springs like us civilians
 
My best hunting loads were done with (earth pig killer Kommando) 168's Sierra Match Kings in front of 43.0 gr. W748. Blowed them up real good.

I also had super great luck competing with Remington PSP 125 gr. bullets. You read that right , the 125 gr. BULK bullets from Wholesale Sports just blowed up the ground hogs with extreme prejudice. :evil:

Okay, seriously now, the 168 grainers with the 43.0 gr W748 was our team's standard load for National Match Course of Fire.

Cheers,
Barney

PS: Hey Chas... those bullets were meant for 100 meter Kommando shooting... or maybe also up to 500m service rifle shooting. They were a great bullet and we cannot find any more.
 
I checked with Fulton Armory and they reccomend 165's and 168's for hunting and I also read a couple of posts from guys who checked with Springfiend Armory and they reccomended the same. You should be fine with 165's and 168's for the lifetime of your rifle as long as you don't get into hot handloads. The Winchester 165 grain ballistic Silvertip cartridges or the Federal Premium loaded with Sierra 165 grain Sierra Gamekings are both excellent commercial rounds for the M14. Fulton Armory reccomends the 165 grain Nosler ballistic round for reloading; they said the ballistic tips (like on the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips) are better for the gun as they don't get lead slivers in the action as bullets with exposed lead can.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom