M305 Ammo .308 or 7.62x51

i've never seen a die set for 7.62x51, ( although they might exist as custom/competition dies) it is theoretically possible, although i'd be looking for a bit of case stretch with the longer neck- by as much as .0013 - but what is the point- the 7.62 is not loaded as hot as the 308 win anyhow, and there's NO advantage( maybe aside from accuracy) just stick with 308 loads, keep your weights under 175 grains, watch when you get pressure signs, and go have fun- and remember "FOUR AND OUT" and forget about accuray- it's a semi-battle rifle- it's not going to happen no matter what you do with it- that's BOLT action territory
and i've had the m14 et al for quite a few years now- 4 of them
for those who actually want to KNOW, type in " 308 winchester vs 7.62x51" in your search engine- it's ALL there- and been CHEWED TO DEATH- just DISREGARD ANYTHING BY CLINT MCKEE OR FULTON ARMORY- it's not releveant to the chinese
 
t-star said:
at 40 rounds you're not going to see ANYTHING- what i'm talking about is a couple of THOUSAND - what happens is that you get microfractures from the piston hitting the op-rod too hard and the op-rod breaking at the welds or bending- with the chinese it's a one piece op-rod with no welds, so it tolerates the abuse a little better than the old usgi welded ones-it's not the pressure , but the PRESSURE CURVE generated by the load ( ie it "slaps" the op-rod too hard) and breaks the welds or joints - however, you can get replacement op-rods
now , from what they tell me SADLAK makes a special piston that's designed for 175's and better, and if you absolutely have to have 180s this is the way to go- however, there's an awful lot of us that have learned to shoot 165-168 grains and get it done with NO APPRECIABLE WEAR on the oprod etc- i know, the m14 was designed around the 147 grain nato load, but just b/c it's nato spec doesn't mean it's the best load for accuracy- i have 4 and they all like the 165-168 series- you need to read the zediker article on the net
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thanks
 
Why would one want to shoot 180gr hunting SP ammo in an M-14? Price, availability? Have alot at home already from hunting rifles?

99% of economy ammo for these rifles, both new and milsurp, is in the NATO spec range 144-150, and that's what the gas system was designed with, for optimum cyclic peformance and action life.

There is lot's of handload data with the heavier 165-168 range for match work and absolute accuracy potential, and combined with the appropriate powder type, it's burn rate and charge, the wear and tear can be minimised.
There are members here who have loads that can produce exceptional accuracy, but it won't be realized with iron sights by me, I'm well beyond the Bisley team. However if you never shot much, were never trained to shoot properly, then you may fall into my class with my weakening eyesight anyhow.a


I know alot of guy's scope these rifles, and therefore can see their accuracy limitations, but I like to shoot it over irons, the way it was meant to be when the US Army adopted it, and whatever group's it will do with NATO spec ammo is fine with me. Other than using normal accuracy tuning tips from the stickies, that's all I need for performance:eek:. Why do I say this?:confused:

I'm testing my marksmanship skills with the rifle, not the rifles inherent accuracy abilities. This may sound funny to some, but once I determine the grouping potential from a bench rest, let's say it's 3MOA @ 200meters, I have the rifles ability base lined and anything wider than a 6" group at that particular distance is me, and not the rifle. This I will try to improve on with breathing, stance, trigger control, sight picture and all the other fine points of marksmanship.

To sum up my rambling, it gives me a beautiful set of iron sights on a nice semi-auto battle rifle, that I can improve MYmarksmanship skills on, and not get caught up in the rifles accuracy potential, as though I were a dedicated match shooter.

Is there anyone else here who enjoys their M-14s or M1A exactly as I stated?
 
RememberTheSomme said:
Why would one want to shoot 180gr hunting SP ammo in an M-14? Price, availability? Have alot at home already from hunting rifles?

99% of economy ammo for these rifles, both new and milsurp, is in the NATO spec range 144-150, and that's what the gas system was designed with, for optimum cyclic peformance and action life.

There is lot's of handload data with the heavier 165-168 range for match work and absolute accuracy potential, and combined with the appropriate powder type, it's burn rate and charge, the wear and tear can be minimised.
There are members here who have loads that can produce exceptional accuracy, but it won't be realized with iron sights by me, I'm well beyond the Bisley team. However if you never shot much, were never trained to shoot properly, then you may fall into my class with my weakening eyesight anyhow.a


I know alot of guy's scope these rifles, and therefore can see their accuracy limitations, but I like to shoot it over irons, the way it was meant to be when the US Army adopted it, and whatever group's it will do with NATO spec ammo is fine with me. Other than using normal accuracy tuning tips from the stickies, that's all I need for performance:eek:. Why do I say this?:confused:

I'm testing my marksmanship skills with the rifle, not the rifles inherent accuracy abilities. This may sound funny to some, but once I determine the grouping potential from a bench rest, let's say it's 3MOA @ 200meters, I have the rifles ability base lined and anything wider than a 6" group at that particular distance is me, and not the rifle. This I will try to improve on with breathing, stance, trigger control, sight picture and all the other fine points of marksmanship.

To sum up my rambling, it gives me a beautiful set of iron sights on a nice semi-auto battle rifle, that I can improve MYmarksmanship skills on, and not get caught up in the rifles accuracy potential, as though I were a dedicated match shooter.

Is there anyone else here who enjoys their M-14s or M1A exactly as I stated?
Click to expand...

Better energy transfer on deer and moose when hunting and first ammo bought

But the last I will own :HR:

I taught why buy a rifle if you can not hunt with it, have fun to shoot and also make the other hunters wander what she is

the last rifle a shot before was 20 years ago ( a FAL) in that caliber with very pleasant memory

She is very pleasant to shot, easy to clean and to take apart

and can hunt coyote, deer, black bear, moose and caribou with it

3 MOA at 200 meter is fine since in the wood of Kebecstan is the max we will see our preys.

I did scoped it but the iron sight is still usable and very useful for shot under 100 yards
 
Hmmmm, I think the thread is a little off topic. The OP wanted to know about 7.62 versus the 308 ammo.

It is a good question. The military ammo has thicker case walls and behaves differently when fired than does the thinner walled commercial ammo. The risks are not so much catastrophic but are more passive in nature.

Simply put, the rifle spec'd headspacing is larger than the SAAMI specs by design. The thicker cases are supposed to accomodate this fact.

In using 308 ammo, one has to remember that the rifle was designed to shoot 150ish to 174ish (there are many different types and designations. Battle ammo (if that moniker fits) was in the 150 range.

The thing is, when you fire the commercial ammo in the NATO chamber, the case has to stretch a bit more than in a commercial rifle. Which, just like Lee Enfield ammo, a reloader will not get many reloads out a particular case before they fatigue and rupture near the case head.

To compensate for this, when I had the Norky bolt on my rifle, I would not resize the case fully, rather, I would leave about 0.005". Some neck resize, which is ok too. I had no issues with my ammo. I was strict though to meet design specs: velocity = 2,750 and bullet = 150 gr.

Happy shooting.
 
great thread op.
I think it had been done and you might have found it or not, bu i did learn not to shoot any 180g from my Norc now. i will stick to 145-160 max. just to be on the safe side.
when you guys are measureing 0.005" what are you using that has sufficiant accuracy to measure that +/- what?
 
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