M305 and Tula ammo kaboom

I can pretty confidently say it's the ammo. Exact same thing happened to me with Tula 308 in a bolt action and a semi-auto AR-type. Now with the exact same big boom and pieces going flying like I had in a 3rd case it seems conclusive. 1 time - fluke, 2 times - coincidence, 3 times - I'm convinced
 
t-star said:
let me ask you this- do you police your berdan primed brass or do you leave it like the rest of the slobs that use it-part of the reason boxers are used is that you can 3-4 times out of a case not so with berdan-
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I police my brass... at genese if it was not busy i would break out tge magnic rake and pick up other peoples as well wait on my guns to cool between strings.

But you show my point regardless... eastern block and tin pot dictators dont want the people picking up and reusing military goods. Besides berdan primers do much better in exteame cold, ive had lots of failure to fire on solid struck 5.56 in my ç7 in -40 .... never once with a berdan. And arguably ive fired more berdan at that temp then boxer.

But back to the rifle .. it might be cheap ammo... but the op has confirmed that the head space has opened up around 12 thou in the course of firing 100 rounds. That is a problem.
 
well you're about 1/1000 that does- most just leave the brass in piles around the firing line for others to dispose of- and yes, I DO know there's berdan recappers out there, but most are very inconvenient to boxers- I know of only one place in Canada that sells berdan caps- I curse and swear every time I go to the range and it's polluted with 7.62x39p- and i'm not worried about tin pot dictators or eastern bloc countries-
 
Lol fair enough.

The only thing worse then having to try to find your own brass in the mountains of it at the range... is finding mountains of it in the crown land shooting spots along side spent hauls... it how it starts.. next thing you know its a garbage pit and shut down.
 
as well you know each piece of boxer primed adds value to the shooting experience-esp if you reload, as it provies an incentive to bend over and pick up that brass- when I was in the service , we put a big tarp down below the machine guns- and they were all boxer primed- remember the "declaration" ?well we never found out whether tte casings were sent back to wherever to be "reconditioned, " but boy did u ever get your ass kicked for making a false declaration and the c7/c7 series in=s not known for being relable in cold temps anyway- I miss the old fn
 
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I just finished reading your thread. Very interesting. Curious to know if you ever got your rifles headspace checked after the incident and what were the results? I am getting one of these rifles next week and am learning as much as possible. Another question for anyone who can answer..... Is Barnaul ammo equivalent to what this Tula is? I shoot a different calibre in my SKS and have never had issues. Thanks,

-Shawn
 
ipscgraz said:
I thought the eastern bloc countries used berdan because it was long-lived and could be stored for a very long time...
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It's the primer compound itself that is long lived, it doesn't matter what type of primer it's in.

Cases that accept Berdan type primers might be (slightly) more difficult to manufacture, BUT IIRC a Berdan type primer is easier to make and holds more primer compound.
 
Shawn H said:
I just finished reading your thread. Very interesting. Curious to know if you ever got your rifles headspace checked after the incident and what were the results? I am getting one of these rifles next week and am learning as much as possible. Another question for anyone who can answer..... Is Barnaul ammo equivalent to what this Tula is? I shoot a different calibre in my SKS and have never had issues. Thanks,

-Shawn
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I find it fascinating that people go out and spend 5-600 on a gun- any gun and then insist on running chit ammo through it, possibly breaking the gun and getting hurt in the process- c'mon people is your life or gun worth the few cents extra that commercial costs?- or learn how to roll your own
 
t-star said:
I find it fascinating that people go out and spend 5-600 on a gun- any gun and then insist on running chit ammo through it, possibly breaking the gun and getting hurt in the process- c'mon people is your life or gun worth the few cents extra that commercial costs?- or learn how to roll your own
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I am with you! I was setup at a gun show this weekend (Colorado). A guy purchase a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A National Match at the show and was looking for some ammunition for it. I had some FNM (Portuguese) 7.62 mm NATO on my table for $.50 a round. He past it up and went across the aisle and bought some TULA for $.45 per round. I guess he shot his wad on the rifle and could not afford anything else. By the way he only bought a 20 round box! I wonder what was up with that? Go figure!
 
1/2 wit- everybody knows that the only ammo you run through an m1a national match is either radway green or lake city nm- it's surprising the number of STUPID people out there- these ain't cars you know, where any kind of gas will do- better question- would you burn centex in your FERRARI? -nd I do roll my own- m118 slr- special long range- developed by zediker for the m14 rifle- you can look up the recipe
n
 
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I can definitely understand about not throwing crap ammo down the pipe. That is why these discussions with the knowledge and experience presented here are good for all. I have always been skeptical about most surplus ammo, but I have used it without issues. (7.62x54r Russian) I want to be safe with the M305 that I am getting and Tula is off the list. Glad my retailers around here don't sell it. I was thinking about the Chinese surplus, but maybe that will be something to further research. I would love to roll my own. My father in law has a great deal of quality reloading equipment he does not use anymore including powder and brass, but my boss (wife) who grew up with that and at one time herself was a shooter told me 'NO"!! I think I will revisit that with her, LOL!! I found this video yesterday from 314229 here on YouTube and found it interesting. There is a casing failure....sorry to ruin it.

 
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Backed out primers can indicate a headspacing issue. Handloaders have been known to compensate for excess headspace to a degree by backing out the full length sizing die slightly to reduce the amount that the case shoulder is set back. That makes me wonder, aside from checking the headspace of the gun (we know norinco's can be sloppy), has anyone also tested the headspace of different brands and lots of factory ammo?
 
Shawn H said:
I can definitely understand about not throwing crap ammo down the pipe. That is why these discussions with the knowledge and experience presented here are good for all. I have always been skeptical about most surplus ammo, but I have used it without issues. (7.62x54r Russian) I want to be safe with the M305 that I am getting and Tula is off the list. Glad my retailers around here don't sell it. I was thinking about the Chinese surplus, but maybe that will be something to further research. I would love to roll my own. My father in law has a great deal of quality reloading equipment he does not use anymore including powder and brass, but my boss (wife) who grew up with that and at one time herself was a shooter told me 'NO"!! I think I will revisit that with her, LOL!! I found this video yesterday from 314229 here on YouTube and found it interesting. There is a casing failure....sorry to ruin it.

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The above is COMMERCIAL ammo made by Norinco. I have yet to hear of any issues from surplus or new manufactured military ammo.
 
Quiet said:
Backed out primers can indicate a headspacing issue. Handloaders have been known to compensate for excess headspace to a degree by backing out the full length sizing die slightly to reduce the amount that the case shoulder is set back. That makes me wonder, aside from checking the headspace of the gun (we know norinco's can be sloppy), has anyone also tested the headspace of different brands and lots of factory ammo?
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I have, I've miked a lot of ammo. most are bang on SAMMI spec or a little under.

I just put 20 piece of MFS in the Mic, 18 were bang on 1.630 (go gauge) 1 was 1.629 and one was 1.628

I get the same story with norc, hornady and AE.

The manufactures are prett stringent with this

I keep saying "this is a head space issue, the op confirm on page 1 the head space went from unable to chamber a .308 no go gauge to almost chambering (less then a thou off) on a 7.62 field gauge that's a movement of 15 thou or about 1/64th of an inch in less then 100 rounds.

People keep blaming the ammo, but I would bet the people that had the same thing happen in their norcs have excessive headspace as well.... some ammo; especially the cheap ####, just can't take that extra stretch.
They came up with these specs for a reason, I don't get why some members here advocate that its not a big deal to be out of spec. To just keep shooting.
I fired an out of spec round unwittingly (out by about 10 thou in COAL), and the gun grenade in my face and peppered the firing line with bits of the rifle.

If a gun chambers a no go gauge, it need to be fixed, Field gauges aren't "oh i guess its ok" it was meant to be a IN WAR measurement (in the field) were it would be considered an acceptable risk to allow the soldier to keep firing (as opposed to going without a weapon) it till it could be replaced or repaired ASAP. If a weapon chambers a field gauge it considered so far out of spec that it was to be removed from service immediately regardless of the circumstances.
 
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My original headspace was roughly .014 over go gauge. Never had a case head separation. The signs of excessive head space I observed were flattened primers.

The ammo is at fault although excessive headspace might be exacerbating the situation.
 
I should clarify that the first time I tried to close on the 7.62 max guage I didn't know you were meant to break the bolt down and remove all spring pressure, so I tried closing the whole bolt, oprod, etc with the extractor and spring loaded plunger still installed and was basically just seeing if it would grasp the rim and close with light hand pressure and it wouldn't. So I'm not sure if the bolt actually has stretched that much if at all.
 
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